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BEC and Protel Autotrax - BEWARE!!!!

Hello all,

I have been having an absolutely shocking run with BEC's pcbs lately. It got to the point a few weeks back that I went there to have a "meeting" with them about all of the issues. Here is a copy of the email I sent to them about it:

************* Hello,

You have the amounts on the invoice incorrect AGAIN - One of these jobs

(********) is single sided, not double sided. We would also like to have them delivered by courier to our premises.

I certainly hope the component overlay is correct this time around - I have attached a .jpg for you to check it against. Pay particular attention to the corners of the pcb where component overlay detail went

mysteriously "missing" the last time BEC manufactured this job.

The component overlay went horribly wrong on one of our other jobs (#*****) recently also. One of your engineers (*****) was made aware of

this however we were not offered any reduced rate and, yet again, paid full price for a sub-standard job. On another job (*****), holes were completely missed even though they were multi-layer - again we paid full price and were not offered any price reduction. Recently the quality of

the BEC pcbs has been slowly declining with missing or incorrect detail

in overlays, bad registration with solder masks and holes drilled off centre, solder not cleared from holes properly and so the list goes on.

We have been dealing with BEC exclusively as a "cash customer" for 7 years and I am disappointed to see the quality and service decrease to this level.

I would like someone from BEC customer service to contact me personally

and discuss these issues and resolve them, if possible. At this time, I

can see no other solution other than to take our work to another pcb manufacturer, as the current quality and service we are receiving from BEC is terrible.

*************

Of course, no one contacted me. I had to call them to arrange a meeting.

During "the meeting", Fransisco wandered over and told me the problem was the new computer system (windows XP) and they were having problems opening protel Autotrax files correctly. I showed him a sample of the faulty boards and he really could not have cared less. He told me that if I upgraded from Autotrax to a windows version of Protel, we wouldn't be having all of these problems. I told him he should not accept Autotrax files if he could not be bothered to manufacture them correctly, as per the file.

I was told the problems would be sorted out now that they were aware of what was going on. This turned out to be BS. I received my latest job from BEC yesterday afternoon and guess what - they are stuffed up! The automatic component identifiers have been left switched on and consequently, the overlay is a mess!

I have sent BEC an email this morning however I really dont expect much of a reply. I think it is time for me to start looking elsewhere for a pcb fabricator who can deal with Autotrax files without "issues". Any suggestions are most welcome.

I hope I am doing someone a favour by sharing my experiences. This rigmarole has cost me customer confidence and could have potentially cost me work. I feel BEC needs to start acting more professionally and to sharpen up on their customer service.

Andy

Reply to
Andy
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XP a new system ? Hardly !

My guess is that they would probably prefer to lose a client who clings to ancient software rather than upgrading to this century's version.

However if that is the case, they should just say so and decline your jobs. Not dick you around.

geoff

Reply to
Geoff

"Ancient" or not, BEC migrated through all of the releases of Protel - they *used* to be able make pcbs correctly from an Autotrax file. For me, in such small volume niche markets, the cost (and time) to upgrade is ridiculous. I cut my teeth on Easytrax when it was first released and because of the low volume of pcb design I do, I have never seen the need to advance past good ol' Autotrax. I had a play with 99SE some time back - looks like it takes a lot of driving.

In these economic times, a small business must be doing ok if it can afford to turn away a no-questions-asked, pay-up-front, regular cash customer - I know I certainly cant. These "cashies" keep the cash flow going in between the payments from the "big customers".

Exactly. If they cant do/dont want the work, make it known.

Reply to
Andy

persactley.

anyone know if BEC do RoHS yet. Last time I approached them, they wanted to do the boards gold plated at about 25% more cost, which creates other problems.

Why not just make them lead free, like everyone else?

Don...

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Reply to
Don McKenzie

I use Jemal PCB in Perth - but that may be too far for you!

Name : Marc Kaye Tel : 08 9356 1997 E-mail : marc at vianet dot net dot au

I don't have any problems with my Autotrax files (except my own problems of course!)

Alan

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Reply to
Alan

(snip)

I used to use BEC in days now past, for AutoTrax jobs. Then they had a major change to names there, and it all seemed to go pear-shaped from that time.

I'm also in small volume niche product - and I presume Alan would declare he is too. I looked at Jemal - having dealt with their predecessor in the 70's (Malcolm Searle at the helm) - but it always seemed their "panel" sizes and my boards never gave a decent panel fill factor.

I had been using Futurlec for protos but the quality was all over the place - some great and some unusable - and tried CustomPCB in Malaysia. They have "issues" with AutoTrax file formats, but can supply proofs before production. They also do silver plated (i.e. ROHS-compliant). Had a disagreement with their man regarding "lost" quantities, and we parted ways.

Next had some boards from mainland China, via Peter (RIP) at Kits'r'Us in HK. Farkin' great quality (as good as BEC ever were) and price, but sadly didn't get details of who/where. There are soooo many shops in China that to try one is really a pig-in-a-poke.

Now use Futurlec and find the quality is reasonable, price is fairly good, and turnaround is typically 3 weeks or so. Have learned to factor that into my work. Soemtimes holes aren't properly cleared, but I accept that at the price because the pain of trying other sources isn't something I look forward to.

Like you, I dabbled with 99SE and quickly went back to AutoTrax. It does all I need and - cost aside - the time spent on the WinProtel's learning curve isn't going to ever be repaid at my volume.

If I needed 5-day turnaround, I suspect I'd be off to try Jemal. At least I can kick arse there (seeing they are here in Perth) but it's a bit harder for you over there in BEC country.

Reply to
budgie

Hi, try pcbfast. They've done a good job for me to date with no complaints

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Greg

Reply to
gcd

Its been a few years now, but I have never had success with BEC. However, in there defence i would probably not support outdated software like Autotrax either.

Reply to
The Real Andy

Please explain your rationale.....

If you had already been supporting it for the last ~15 years, why would you suddenly stop, especially when there is a demand? The ongoing cost is nothing so why not keep making the profit on something you ironed the bugs out on over a decade ago? The customers' money is the same colour whether the file is supplied in Autotrax or the latest DXP format so why would you care?

Andy

Reply to
Andy

The demand is small, and restricted to hobbiest like yourself.

Pffft. Its got more bugs that DXP.

Your money is toy money. Your format is outdated. The PCB shop has to spend time manipulating your outdated format, time is money. Perhpaps they should charge an extra processing fee for outdated formats, but then you would complain even more, saying how its not fair.

Reply to
The Real Andy

Hi all, which is why you export to the standard file format - gerber or x-gerber rather than ascii protel pcb or binary pcb files. . you MAY need info on the manufacturers standard tool sizes for this if they can't support all sizes for the aperture files, or as autotrax doesnt have aperture data in the gerber file, need to find a converter which creates x-gerber for you

Or use the ipc standards file format ipc-2581 ipc-nc-349 rather than gerber, but not all manufacturers use the ipc formats, and not all software exports in ipc format - that standard hasn't really taken off like other ipc standards.

Greg

Reply to
gcd

Not true, there are a number of small scale manufacturers still using it. Peter Crowcroft wouldn't use anything else until he died recently. It did the job for the small DS boards he needed, and he didn't have to pay for, or learn anything new. Two rather BIG hurdles with DXP unfortunately.

But a person still using autotrax is probably not going to pay the cost of DXP. I know I'm not for one :-)

I have no doubt the large scale producers would agree, that is their choice. No doubt there are smaller producers who would welcome some extra "toy money". It's simply a matter of finding them, which is what the OP is after apparently.

No, he already indicated he would prefer they simply say up front if they can't handle the format. What he is trying to find is someone that can. The total cost, including any extra processing fees, is just part of the comparison between companies, as long as you are told up front.

MrT.

Reply to
Mr.T

Sorry Mr. T., But DXP has gone the way of Autotrax and if you had paid for DXP you'd now have to pay for Altium Designer 6. I think they're trying to get down below a one year cycle. Got to keep the customers' money churning.

Cheers, Alf

Reply to
Alf Katz

Got to keep bank rolling all those embedded micro core design people they have been hiring like crazy for the last 6 months too. I smell a bubble...

Dave :)

Reply to
David L. Jones

Time to throw my evaluation disk out then I guess :-)

Even more reason for occasional users to stick with Autotrax then I guess. Although I imagine DXP files might be supported for a little longer yet.

MrT.

Reply to
Mr.T

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