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Re: Am I misremembering?

:
:
:>
:>>
:>>
:>>>
:>>>>
:>>>>> When I was a kid (in the 70s) the family house had a phone extension
:>>>>> in my parents' bedroom.
:>>>>> I remember being told that Telstra (or whatever they used to be called
:>>>>> then...) should not find out because they would charge us more for the
:>>>>> phone service, or we would get in trouble for tampering with the
:>>>>> installation, or some such thing.
:>>>>>
:>>>>> Was this ever actually the case?
:>>>>>
:>>>>>
:>>>>>
:>>>> Where I came from in Africa we used drums. If the Chief caught you
:>>>> strapping an extension drum to your back you were in big trouble - you
:>>>> were put into the pot and cooked.
:>>>>
:>>>>
:>>>
:>>> LOL - best contribution to this thread so far. :-)
:>>>
:>>
:>> mmmmmm, I wonder if "Bobby" is a psuedo for one of the training school
:>> instructors who used to tell us TOITs/TTOs in depth of his Africa/PNG
:>> travels.
:>
:> Dunno, but it sounds like a familiar yarn.
:> Quite a few of the instructors I know of worked in PNG and had some
:> interesting tales to tell.
:>
:>
:>
:
:Shame the old Manning Training Centre (WA) was demolished. In hindsight it
:was a pretty significant place.
:

Or the old Lord Street training school before that. Actually it was a pretty
boggy collection of old WW2 sheds with one main brick building for the Scots
principal, Jim Douglas. He was a great old guy who went to bat for a number of
trainee techs who got into trouble with the law - borrowing cars, shop-lifting
and the like. He would go guarantor for their future good behaviour and none
that I know let him down.

Re: Am I misremembering?


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I was a bit late for Lord St.

Their were a few good guys at Manning. I think Jack Keilly was the OIC, guys
like Cliff Pilgrim, Bob Boyes and others I've forgotten were good
instructors and also good blokes. I still recall some of Keith Perry's
(believe it or not) stories.




Re: Am I misremembering?

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Well, strange as it may seem the Manning Training School social club is
still alive and well.
We meet on the second Wednesday of every month at the Mt. Pleasant Bowling
Club at about 4PM for drinks and we hold a Christmas BBQ every year.  Many
of the old faces still turn up if they can make it.
Keith Perry, Bob Cook, Martin Clare, Alan Hudson, Bob Grannary, Bob Boyes,
Neville McPherson, Colin Plackett, Russell Nash and myself are regulars and
we frequently get a few former instructors from several years back like
Geoff Lofts (now pretty high up in Cisco) and John Connell turning up from
time to time.

Jack Keilly and Cliff Pilgrim may possibly not be with us any more.  I'll
ask about them at the next meeting.

The training school is now completely demolished and has been for some time
now.  Strangely AFAIK the block hasn't been redeveloped which is surprising,
considering its location and close proximity to the city (only 9km out via
the freeway or the train).

Cheers,
Alan



Re: Am I misremembering?

<<snipped>>

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There's a few more familiar names,  should try to turn up at the Bowling
Club some time, it's just up the road.



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I hope they are still around. I think Cliff went off to set up his own
cabling/telecoms outfit.


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Re: Am I misremembering?
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:51:57 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"

:
:>
:>
:>>
:>> :
:>> :
:>> :>
:>> :>>
:>> :>>
:>> message
:>> :>>>
:>> :>>>>
:>> :>>>>> When I was a kid (in the 70s) the family house had a phone
:>> extension
:>> :>>>>> in my parents' bedroom.
:>> :>>>>> I remember being told that Telstra (or whatever they used to be
:>> called
:>> :>>>>> then...) should not find out because they would charge us more for
:>> the
:>> :>>>>> phone service, or we would get in trouble for tampering with the
:>> :>>>>> installation, or some such thing.
:>> :>>>>>
:>> :>>>>> Was this ever actually the case?
:>> :>>>>>
:>> :>>>>>
:>> :>>>>>
:>> :>>>> Where I came from in Africa we used drums. If the Chief caught you
:>> :>>>> strapping an extension drum to your back you were in big trouble -
:>> you
:>> :>>>> were put into the pot and cooked.
:>> :>>>>
:>> :>>>>
:>> :>>>
:>> :>>> LOL - best contribution to this thread so far. :-)
:>> :>>>
:>> :>>
:>> :>> mmmmmm, I wonder if "Bobby" is a psuedo for one of the training
:>> school
:>> :>> instructors who used to tell us TOITs/TTOs in depth of his Africa/PNG
:>> :>> travels.
:>> :>
:>> :> Dunno, but it sounds like a familiar yarn.
:>> :> Quite a few of the instructors I know of worked in PNG and had some
:>> :> interesting tales to tell.
:>> :>
:>> :>
:>> :>
:>> :
:>> :Shame the old Manning Training Centre (WA) was demolished. In hindsight
:>> it
:>> :was a pretty significant place.
:>> :
:>>
:>> Or the old Lord Street training school before that. Actually it was a
:>> pretty
:>> boggy collection of old WW2 sheds with one main brick building for the
:>> Scots
:>> principal, Jim Douglas. He was a great old guy who went to bat for a
:>> number of
:>> trainee techs who got into trouble with the law - borrowing cars,
:>> shop-lifting
:>> and the like. He would go guarantor for their future good behaviour and
:>> none
:>> that I know let him down.
:>
:> I was a bit late for Lord St.
:>
:> Their were a few good guys at Manning. I think Jack Keilly was the OIC,
:> guys like Cliff Pilgrim, Bob Boyes and others I've forgotten were good
:> instructors and also good blokes. I still recall some of Keith Perry's
:> (believe it or not) stories.
:>
:
:Well, strange as it may seem the Manning Training School social club is
:still alive and well.
:We meet on the second Wednesday of every month at the Mt. Pleasant Bowling
:Club at about 4PM for drinks and we hold a Christmas BBQ every year.  Many
:of the old faces still turn up if they can make it.
:Keith Perry, Bob Cook, Martin Clare, Alan Hudson, Bob Grannary, Bob Boyes,
:Neville McPherson, Colin Plackett, Russell Nash and myself are regulars and
:we frequently get a few former instructors from several years back like
:Geoff Lofts (now pretty high up in Cisco) and John Connell turning up from
:time to time.
:
:Jack Keilly and Cliff Pilgrim may possibly not be with us any more.  I'll
:ask about them at the next meeting.
:
:The training school is now completely demolished and has been for some time
:now.  Strangely AFAIK the block hasn't been redeveloped which is surprising,
:considering its location and close proximity to the city (only 9km out via
:the freeway or the train).
:
:Cheers,
:Alan
:


Most of those names are familiar. I still see Colin Plackett regularly at ATHS
meetings. I might drop by Mt Pleasant BC next Wednesday and have a beer...


Re: Am I misremembering?

:
:
:I was a bit late for Lord St.
:
:Their were a few good guys at Manning. I think Jack Keilly was the OIC, guys
:like Cliff Pilgrim, Bob Boyes and others I've forgotten were good
:instructors and also good blokes. I still recall some of Keith Perry's
:(believe it or not) stories.
:
:


I remember Jack Keily and Bob Boyes. Keith Perry was also a 1956 intake TiT and
hopefully he will be at our reunion lunch today at Mundaring Hotel.


Re: Am I misremembering?

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In Australia? Sure was. Furthermore, without being a registered cabler
you still are not permitted to tamper with phone wiring in your house
beyond plugging in permitted accessories with the Austel certification
or equivalent. The fine is $AU1,200. I've only heard of it being
applied to sparkies doing telco work without the training and
registration. However, it's the only penalty the ACMA had on the books
last I heard (a couple of years back). BTW, 10% GST is applicable to
the fine so it's $1,320 out of your pocket if you ever get done!

John

Re: Am I misremembering?
Hmm so what good or service do they claim to be providing to the
culprit.


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Blue

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Re: Am I misremembering?
I suggest that if anyone tries adding GST to  any fines they
consult a tax accountant; a fine is not about paying
consideration for provision of an agreed good or service.

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Blue

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Re: Am I misremembering?
An essential requirement of a taxable supply is that the supply
is made for consideration.F2 GSTR 2001/4 explains that, for
there to be a supply for consideration, three fundamental
criteria must be met:
    
      there must be a supply,
    
      there must be a payment, and
    
      there must be sufficient nexus between the supply and the
payment for it to be a supply for consideration.F3

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Blue

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Re: Am I misremembering?
Reference was
http://www.ato.gov.au/taxprofessionals/content.asp?doc=/Content/37338.htm&page=1#P429_48864

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Blue

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Re: Am I misremembering?
unless of course some forbearance is involved; i.e if you pay
this fine we won't proceed with prosecution...  or if you pay
the fine Telstra agree not to impose some greater penalty  - the
payment is not just a fine but provides some other
consideration.

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Blue

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Re: Am I misremembering?
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:16:12 GMT, "aussiblu"

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Yeah, I pondered that but got the info from an instructor first hand
while doing a registered cabler course. I've since seen the fine cited
in the media as $1,320 (without separate mention of tax) so that kinda
confirms it. As far as I can figure, it's not actually a fine. And
it's not imposed by Telstra either. It's a fee by the ACMA for their
services in managing this industry self-regulation. Doublespeak...

Yeah, I reckon it's a fine line (pun intended) but just don't get
sprung to test it. If they were to hit you with it, I suspect you'll
be kicking and screaming like a stuck pig - but still done like bacon
regardless of what you pay for your legal advice...

John

Re: Am I misremembering?
I see:
http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/main/lib310155/web%20pdf%20acmasphere_21.pdf
page 9  you are totally right.

"ACMA has issued an on-the-spot fine
to a telecommunications cabler
working without a current
registration. Doing any cabling work
that involves connection to the
telecommunications network without
a cabler registration is against the
law. During an investigation into a
complaint about non-compliant
cabling work, a routine check of the
cabler's registration revealed that it
lapse. The cabler was issued a
telecommunications infringement
notice, incurring an on-the-spot fine
of $1,320."


and
http://www.cepu-sant.com.au/documents/e-bulletin_5_telecommunications_15-6-07.pdf

"ACMA cracks down on shoddy cabling work

The Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) has at
last taken some action against
poor work practices in the customer cabling sector. It has
issued its first infringement notice against a
cabler whose work did not comply with the standards set out
under the Cabling Provider Rules
(CPRs). The cabler, who in fact was not even registered, will
face a penalty payment of $1320.

Despite well recognised compliance problems in the customer
cabling sector, the ACMA has been
reluctant in the past to impose penalties on individual cablers
who are often being driven to take short
cuts by their employers or by the pressures of the
sub-contracting business. ACMA has preferred to
use its powers to require cablers to make good faulty work
rather than fine them. Unfortunately this
has led some in the industry to see ACMA as a "toothless tiger".

The CEPU recognises the pressures that individual cablers face
in today's industry. But the union also
believes that protection of standards and skills in the industry
is in its members' best interests. Non-
compliant work represents a safety issue for all those who work
on telecommunications networks,
both customer cablers and field technicians. And no-one except
the employer gains when skills are
downgraded in the industry."


and  http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1455#16
What happens if I do not comply with the Telecommunications Act
or the CPRs?
ACMA has a range of options available. ACMA may simply issue a
formal warning notice to the cabler, issue a non-compliance
notice to the telecommunications carrier (who may disconnect
dangerous cabling from the network), issue a telecommunications
infringement notice to the cabler (this is an on-the-spot fine
of $1,320), or if the matter is serious enough, ACMA can take
court prosecution action with the cabler. A court prosecution
may result in a conviction and/or a fine of up to $13,200.

For example, if you are an unregistered cabler who is not
properly supervised or if the work performed does not comply
with the Wiring Rules it is a criminal offence and you could
face an on-the-spot fine of $1,320, or if court action is taken,
the fine can be up to $13,200. "





Most importantly the explanation for the GST charge is in the
Act that underpins the Telco Providers rules here
http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/telcomm/cabling/telecomcablingprovrules2000.pdf



http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/0/E4A72D40840ED3D8CA257479001F89EC /$file/Tele1997_WD02.doc



Is a payment in consideration (penalty) payable instead of
prosecution so the offender agrees to pay in consideration of
them not prosecuting so they can charge GST.  The culprit gets
off being prosecuted by agreeing to pay the penalty.

"

434  Offence in relation to contravening condition

             (1)  A person is guilty of an offence if:

                     (a)  the person is the holder of a cabling
licence that authorises the performance of a particular type of
cabling work; and

                     (b)  the person performs cabling work of
that type; and

                     (c)  the performance of that work
contravenes a condition to which the licence is subject.

Penalty:  100 penalty units.

Note 1:       See also sections 4AA and 4B of the Crimes Act
1914.

Note 2:       See also Division 13 of this Part (which deals
with the payment of penalties as an alternative to prosecution).

             (2)  A person is guilty of an offence if:

                     (a)  the person is the holder of a cabling
licence that authorises the performance of a particular type of
cabling work; and

                     (b)  the person engages in conduct; and

                     (c)  the result of the person's conduct is
a failure to take all reasonable steps to ensure that cabling
work of that type performed under the person's supervision does
not contravene the conditions of the licence.

Penalty:  100 penalty units.

Note 1:       See also sections 4AA and 4B of the Crimes Act
1914.

Note 2:       See also Division 13 of this Part (which deals
with the payment of penalties as an alternative to prosecution).

             (3)  In this section:

engage in conduct means:

                     (a)  do an act; or

                     (b)  omit to perform an act.



snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Division 13-Penalties payable instead of prosecution

453A  Penalties payable instead of prosecution

             (1)  The regulations may make provision in relation
to enabling a person who is alleged to have committed an offence
of a kind referred to in the following table to pay to the
Commonwealth, as an alternative to prosecution, a penalty of an
amount worked out in accordance with subsection (2).

             (2)  The amount of penalty payable to the
Commonwealth under regulations made for the purposes of
subsection (1) in respect of an offence is determined using the
following table:



      Penalties payable



      Item
     Alleged offence
     Penalty for individual
     Penalty for body corporate

      1
     subsection 399(1)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      2
     subsection 411(2)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      3
     subsection 413(2)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      4
     subsection 414(2)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      5
     subsection 415(2)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      6
     subsection 416(2)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      7
     subsection 417(2)
     6 penalty units
     30 penalty units

      8
     subsection 420(2)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      9
     subsection 421(4)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units

      10
     subsection 434(1) or (2)
     12 penalty units
     60 penalty units






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Blue

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