Am I misremembering?

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When I was a kid (in the 70s) the family house had a phone extension in my
parents' bedroom.
I remember being told that Telstra (or whatever they used to be called
then...) should not find out because they would charge us more for the phone
service, or we would get in trouble for tampering with the installation, or
some such thing.

Was this ever actually the case?




Re: Am I misremembering?

"John"
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**  Yep.




........     Phil



Re: Am I misremembering?


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The jumper king who lived in the MDF room would test lines, I think doing a
polarity reversal and see how long the meter needle took to fall back,
giving an indication of the capacitance on across the line. More phones =
more capacitance.

IIRC the phones could be strapped share a single cap and still retain the
bell in each phone.



Re: Am I misremembering?
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     I worked in an exchange once ... what's a 'jumper king'? The place
had air conditioning and we didn't wear jumpers. ;)

     Yep, during a line test we could see how much capacitance there was
by watching the meter. Lots of times it was obvious that there was more
than one phone on the line, but I don't remember anyone ever doing
anything about it.

     The later 800 series 'colour' phones could be set up with only a
single capacitor on the line for more than one phone. I can't quite
remember if that was possible on the older 300 & 400 series bakelite phones.


Bob


Re: Am I misremembering?


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In the '80s in WA there seemed to be a Tech Assistant who lived in the MDF
room running the jumpers between the Cable side of the MDF and the Xchange
side. I was in a 3rd in maintenance role
in long haul trunk equip (FDM, digital coax and the then newish optical
stuff), we all referred to the MDF guy as the jumper king.

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Same here, no one was too worried, the techs view seemed to be more phones =
more calls = more $$.


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Aaah yep - I was thinking 800 series.



Re: Am I misremembering?
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    Ah, right. At the exchange where I was, the MDF jumpering got done
by  whoever didn't have a lot else to do, often trainees like me.

    Later I migrated to the radio communications section and looked
after broadband analog microwave systems which was hugely better than
running jumpers. :)



Bob

Re: Am I misremembering?

:>> "John"
:>>> When I was a kid (in the 70s) the family house had a phone extension in
:>>> my parents' bedroom.
:>>> I remember being told that Telstra (or whatever they used to be called
:>>> then...) should not find out because they would charge us more for the
:>>> phone service, or we would get in trouble for tampering with the
:>>> installation, or some such thing.
:>>>
:>>> Was this ever actually the case?
:>>
:>> **  Yep.
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>> ........     Phil
:>>
:>
:>
:> The jumper king who lived in the MDF room would test lines, I think doing a
:> polarity reversal and see how long the meter needle took to fall back,
:> giving an indication of the capacitance on across the line. More phones =
:> more capacitance.
:>
:> IIRC the phones could be strapped share a single cap and still retain the
:> bell in each phone.
:>
:>
:
:     I worked in an exchange once ... what's a 'jumper king'? The place
:had air conditioning and we didn't wear jumpers. ;)
:
:     Yep, during a line test we could see how much capacitance there was
:by watching the meter. Lots of times it was obvious that there was more
:than one phone on the line, but I don't remember anyone ever doing
:anything about it.
:
:     The later 800 series 'colour' phones could be set up with only a
:single capacitor on the line for more than one phone. I can't quite
:remember if that was possible on the older 300 & 400 series bakelite phones.
:
:
:Bob

When I sarted in the PMG in 1956 the standard phone was the 300 series and I
carried out many parallel and portable installations in subsequent years. In
order to reduce "bell tinkling" while dialling from a parallel phone the bell
circuit capacitor in the second (or third) phones had to be disconnected. A 3
wire parallel connection was employed so that the only capacitor in all of the
parallel phones was that in bell circuit of the first, or primary phone. All of
the bells in the paralleled phones were effectively in parallel and in series
with the capacitor in the primary phone. As far as the test desk "capacitor
kick" test is concerned, when all phones are on-hook, there is almost no
difference (if any at all) in the meter indication compared to when only a
single phone is connected to the line.

A typical 300 series portable connection illustrates the principle of parallel
connection. While this circuit indicates the use of a fixed bellset and a single
portable phone (with handle), the PMG in WA did not use this method AFAIK. The
standard method was that a primary, or "fixed", telephone had to be the first
connection point (in a similar manner to a standard parallel service) and this
was the only phone where the bell capacitor was in circuit.
http://www.britishtelephones.com/aus/300port.htm

Since all 300 series (and earlier) phones used a permanent hardwired connection
via a fixed terminal block (except where a portable service was used) there was
little chance (apart from someone ripping the incoming cable or line cord from
the terminal block) that a phone could be disconnected at the premises, so the
capacitor kick from the phone was a very reliable indication of the line
condition.

Ever since the mid 1930's when 162AT and the superior 232AT were the standard
phones in Australia there has been a provision for a 3rd wire to allow a
parallel phone connection using only a single capacitor in the bell circuit. In
fact there is probably no reason that earlier models than these could not be
connected in parallel using only a single capacitor in the bell circuit.
http://www.britishtelephones.com/aus/232cbt.htm

The early 800 series phones were essentially improved versions of the older 300
and 400 series phones and still used a magneto bell as the ring indicator. When
these were paralleled a 3 wire circuit had to be used similar to the 300/400
series.

The latest of the 800 series phones (eg. 8081) were essentially "all electronic"
and the ring indicator was either a 2" loudspeaker or a piezo sounder and these
phones could be effectively connected in parallel using a 2 wire connection.

Re: Am I misremembering?

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single
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electronic"
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     Thanks for the info Ross. :) It's all coming back now. It's 36
years since I got out of that section of the PMG/Telecom .... makes me
feel old. :)


Bob


Re: Am I misremembering?

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Spot on the money there Ross. :-)

As newer phones where introduced (and were still using pulse dialling), an
add on device called an anti-tinkle module was wired into the bell circuit
of the phones.  The module consisted of a simple circuit of semiconductors
and resistors encapsulated in a small epoxy block about half the size of a
box of matches.  It had two connections - one flying grey lead and one fixed
spade type terminal which was wired into the bell circuit in the later 800
series phones (both wall mount and table sets).  This prevented the bells
from tinkling when the phones were wired in parallel using only a two wire
cable pair, effectively eliminating the need for the third wire to the other
phones.

Cheers,
Alan



Re: Am I misremembering?
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:44:30 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"

:
:Spot on the money there Ross. :-)
:
:As newer phones where introduced (and were still using pulse dialling), an
:add on device called an anti-tinkle module was wired into the bell circuit
:of the phones.  The module consisted of a simple circuit of semiconductors
:and resistors encapsulated in a small epoxy block about half the size of a
:box of matches.  It had two connections - one flying grey lead and one fixed
:spade type terminal which was wired into the bell circuit in the later 800
:series phones (both wall mount and table sets).  This prevented the bells
:from tinkling when the phones were wired in parallel using only a two wire
:cable pair, effectively eliminating the need for the third wire to the other
:phones.
:
:Cheers,
:Alan
:


While I did know about this add-on for the earlier decadic push-button phones I
never actually used it. I considered it as a "bodgie" way of connecting parallel
phones using only 2 wires, and they were generally not available in our depots
anyway. It was not available already fitted to a phone so a tech had to install
it for a customer anyway.

It only made sense to use the anti-tinkle module if an insitu cable was
installed to the point where the parallel phone was required and that cable was
single pair, and the tech didn't feel like running a new 2pr cable, or this
option was too difficult. A module was required in each phone as well so it was
probably just as costly as running a new cable. Since the early 60's internal
customer cabling was done using 2pr (or 3pr in some cases) pvc cable so there
were usually spare conductors available even where insitu cabling was installed.
It was just as quick to connect the third wire and modify the parallel phone
rather than install the ant-tinkle devices.

I considered it as inferior to the 3 wire connection and I always opted for the
old method.

Re: Am I misremembering?

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Hi Ross,

2 pair internal is still the standard cable used these days.
I've probably still got one of these modules tucked away in the junk parts
bin.

Cheers,
Alan



Re: Am I misremembering?
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:45:23 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"

:Hi Ross,
:
:2 pair internal is still the standard cable used these days.
:I've probably still got one of these modules tucked away in the junk parts
:bin.
:
:Cheers,
:Alan
:


I wouldn't mind grabbing it off you to add to my collection of memorabilia....

Re: Am I misremembering?

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How many metres or feet of it do you want Ross?




Re: Am I misremembering?
On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:22:43 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"

:
:> On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:45:23 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"
:>
:> :Hi Ross,
:> :
:> :2 pair internal is still the standard cable used these days.
:> :I've probably still got one of these modules tucked away in the junk
:> parts
:> :bin.
:> :
:> :Cheers,
:> :Alan
:> :
:>
:>
:> I wouldn't mind grabbing it off you to add to my collection of
:> memorabilia....
:
:How many metres or feet of it do you want Ross?
:
:

Not the 2pr cable - I have heaps of that already.

Re: Am I misremembering?

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Sorry, obviously the anti-tinkle module.  When if dig it out you are welcome
to have it.

Cheers,
Alan



Re: Am I misremembering?
On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 20:38:16 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"

:
:> On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 17:22:43 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"
:>
:> :
:> :> On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:45:23 +0900, "Alan Rutlidge"
:> :>
:> :> :Hi Ross,
:> :> :
:> :> :2 pair internal is still the standard cable used these days.
:> :> :I've probably still got one of these modules tucked away in the junk
:> :> parts
:> :> :bin.
:> :> :
:> :> :Cheers,
:> :> :Alan
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :>
:> :> I wouldn't mind grabbing it off you to add to my collection of
:> :> memorabilia....
:> :
:> :How many metres or feet of it do you want Ross?
:> :
:> :
:>
:> Not the 2pr cable - I have heaps of that already.
:
:Sorry, obviously the anti-tinkle module.  When if dig it out you are welcome
:to have it.
:
:Cheers,
:Alan
:

OK, email me and we'll sort out the cost.

Ross

Re: Am I misremembering?
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You must have been sent to one of the more modern exchanges at that
time, I started a few years after you but we only had the older magneto
phones and exchanges in the district.

I recall that some of the older techs made sure that one of us trainees
was hanging on to the line when they tested with their  "portable" phone.

That 90 0r so volts sure livened things up a bit.

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single
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electronic"
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--
Laurie.
Registered Linux user # 468070

Re: Am I misremembering?

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Yep, they sure did.  The horse shoe magnet used in the magneto hand
generator produced a distorted peaky version of a sinewave and was quite
effective in increasing the "bite" of the voltage. LOL

Of course, ringer machines in exchanges of that era produced a sinewave
output but at a low frequency of approximately 16Hz.
Low Hertz, but big on the "it hurts" factor - LOL  No pun intended.




Re: Am I misremembering?

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Surely that pun WAS intended.

MrT.



Re: Am I misremembering?

:>
:> :Bob
:>
:> When I started in the PMG in 1956 the standard phone was the 300 series and I
:
:
:You must have been sent to one of the more modern exchanges at that
:time, I started a few years after you but we only had the older magneto
:phones and exchanges in the district.

While I did work mostly in the city I also did my stints in the outer metro
exchanges like Armadale, when it was still magneto service, and Kalamunda just
after it changed to auto. The latter exchange used old refurbished Keith Line
Switches (plungers) as the primary line finders. Much of the line plant in these
areas was still aerial construction and "walking the route" was performed by the
trainee when line faults required fixing after a storm. The only way to find
that broken wire, popped insulator or tree branch across the line was to
actually walk the route.

:
:I recall that some of the older techs made sure that one of us trainees
:was hanging on to the line when they tested with their  "portable" phone.
:
:That 90 0r so volts sure livened things up a bit.

An old trick played in training school... wire up a metal stool and a pair of
side cutters to a hand magneto during a break period and when the unsuspecting
trainee returned, sat down and grabbed the cutters, the magneto was madly
cranked by the joker.


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