Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge? - Page 2

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Whew, good ... I did drivers ed and license in Germany. Then again in
the US. But I'm not young :-(

The insurance companies saw that differently after we moved across the
pond. "You guys are all related to Michael Schumacher". -> Decline to
quote :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Well, let's see. Recently I have repaired:

* A clock radio (solder joint at LED display)
* Garage door opener (hanging relay)
* Remote for garage door opener (cracked resistor)
* A furnace controller (blown SCR)
* A sprinkler timer (blown triac)
* Numerous sprinkler valves (all sorts of broken things)
* Several X10 modules (poor quality in general, IMHO)
* A HP4191 (bad transistor in backup charge circuit)
* A telephone (loose wire to keypad)
* Lots of other stuff that I don't remember

My wife manages the honey-do list and when something is done it's
checked off and we go to the next item so I don't remember some stuff.

Hint: Don't let your wife see this post or she may get an idea and then
your Saturday's are toast ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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I have a clock radio that uses the LED display to both tell the time and
display the frequency of the radio.  It has a problem where it often gets
stuck displaying the radio frequency (even when the radio is off!), and you
need to slap it slightly to get it to work correctly again.  I'm planning on
just tossing it, since it cost all of $15. :-)

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Our garage door opener has a range of all of 15', although I think it's just
due to the guy who previously owned the house not realizing that that dangling
wire of a receive antenna wouldn't work so well if he "neatly" bundled it up
into a tiny ball.  (I haven't fixed it yet.)

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Yeah, not worth your hard-earned dollars, Joerg. :-)

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Don't worry, I won't... I'd rather spend more spare "electronics hobby" time
building new stuff rather than repairing old stuff!

To an extent I'll concede you've proved your point, although I do think the
items that many a kid or teen today would be *interested* in repairing
(because they do cost a non-negligible sum) would be their Xbox 350, their
cell phone, their iPod, their laptop PC, etc... and all of these items are
difficult if not impossible to repair at the board level.

---Joel



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Ours was $9.95:-)

But I repaired it for two reasons. Walmart would certainly have chucked
it, meaning more waste in the landfills. Then the drive would have been
60 minutes round trip. The repair took 15 minutes. The diagnostic
instrument was a toothpick.


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But there ain't nothin' else :-(


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That's exactly the point, *interested*. IMHO only a person with a great
deal of curiosity will become a good engineer. And curiosity includes
taking things apart. Lots of things. Guess what I did when I bought five
of those $3 Harborfreight meters? Opened one up before even trying it.
This was a super lesson in ultra low cost design, something no professor
could ever teach.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Many of us who don't work from home pass by a Wal*Mart every day, Joerg. :-)

But you've convinced me to take a look at mine -- keeping it out of the
landfill is a good rationale.

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Yeah, I agree -- I'm just not convinced that that curiosity has to imply they
sit around designing or repairing "low tech" devices anymore.  You see plenty
of teens today building fancy microcontroller boards, sophisticated
programmable logic designs, and writing quite impressive software, and many
will make the "good engineer" grade -- it'll just that our industry is far
more diverse today than it was 50 years ago.

I probably am a bit hypocritical here in that I've written in the past that I
think it's more impressive to see a college kid at an engineering expo design
their own, e.g., 318MHz 1.2kbps BPSK transmitter out of discrete parts than
just plop down a complete 2.4GHz 1Mbps Bluetooth (FHSS) module with RS-232
interface, though. :-)

---Joel





Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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He needs them to keep mice out of the equipment. My second house is full of
electronic equipment, surplus parts, tools, books, and other "junk", so his
place looks familiar. And I no longer have a cat, and I have found mouse
nests in some of my stuff.


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http://www.kennethkuhn.com/writings/commentaries/the%20quality%20of%20students%20today.htm
.

Yes, I tend to agree. I saw an early example of this even at Johns Hopkins
University, where I attended from 1966 to 1970. For one thing, I had
problems with advanced calculus, and I really did not understand much. I
would get scores of 15 or 25 out of 100. Yet they were graded on the curve,
and I actually passed! I took the course over again, with an instructor who
spoke real English and did not write in Sanscrit, and I learned a little
more, but this time I passed with a "C" for test scores well under 50%.

In a class on Games and Artificial Intelligence, I worked hard on a
programming project and turned in a pretty good assignment, and I was
appalled when it was returned with a note saying that the professor had
learned that there was a lot of cheating going on, although he did not
specifically blame me. I'm sure things have deteriorated since then.

It seems that the PC thing to do, these days, is to reward laziness and
poor learning habits, at the expense of those who take the time and effort
to learn and do independent research and make efforts above and beyond what
is demanded. The "no child left behind" program pushes students through the
system with little or no absolute requirements for graduation, and are
often rewarded just for not engaging in criminal activity (which is also
tolerated). Maybe this should be replaced with a program of "No child's
behind left unspanked"!

This attitude, poor character, and lack of responsibility also appears as
poor decision making in real life, as evidenced by many of those who are
now losing their homes in the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Many of these
people were duped into getting themselves into unrealistic situations
because they did not get a good education, which was freely offered to
them, and had the expectation that things would be just given to them
because they were somehow entitled to it. They kept their poor spending
habits and accumulated more debt, until their house of plastic cards fell
down on them. But now they expect the government to step in and save them
from their own irresponsibility.

I was challenged on this when I brought it up and discussed it on
rec.pets.dogs.behavior, where most people thought I was being heartless and
uncaring about these poor people. I realize there are some cases where good
people had bad things happen to them through no fault of their own, and
they deserve some sympathy and assistance, but most probably were lazy
students with poor character.

Paul



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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I had a control systems class like that... the guy teaching it was very good
at math and loved to use rather fancy linear algebra in his lectures and on
the homework assignments and exams.  I definitely suffered, having a weak
background in it at the time (and still rather spotty today, although
definitely far better now than then), but most of the class was in a similar
boat (i.e., lots of low scores) and the guy was an easy grader.

I didn't learn a whole lot, unfortunately.  I realize it's a hard call for
professors to essentially stand by their principles and actually mean it when
they say you need such-and-such requisites, but when you end up with a
significant fraction of your class not getting anything out of it due to many
of the students being allowed to "slide by" in those pre-requisite courses,
that's of course a problem too.

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Yep, I think you're absolutely correct here.

I am a bit disappointed in some of the companies that offered those loans as
well, though.  Yes, it was certainly legal, but I couldn't imagine running a
business like that and still showing my face in public or visiting my mother
for Sunday dinner.

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I'm definitely a bit of a softie, but when it comes to spending tax dollars I
draw the line at anything much more than making sure people have enough food
to eat, some sort of shelter over their heads (a 500 sq. ft. studio apartment
is plenty for a single person), and a bus pass and library card to get a job
and do some research/use the Internet -- bailing them out of their bad
mortgage for their 4000 sq. ft. ranch is not a good use of tax dollars.

---Joel



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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I finished school three years ago and yes I agree cheating is
ridiculous. What used to amaze me is that the cheaters would actually
believe they are geniuses because they got straight "A's". Some of
them would sit with there text books on there laps during a test. They
would also Copy assignments' from previous years etc. I could never
understand how the Prof couldn't notice. I did read a study done which
included your ivy league schools that concluded that greater then 80%
of students cheated regularly.  These people probably all work at
Wittig.

snip
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Yes some people definitely need to learn financial restraint. I follow
these rules if I can't pay cash I can't afford it. With the exception
of big ticket items like vehicles 5 years max to pay it off or don't
buy the dam thing.

 I was curious as to how people who make about the same amount of
money as me can own all these things but I guess they don't own them
the bank does. I may not have too much but what I have I own.

If it was the Canadian goverment they would probably buy all the
houses.

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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Rigol already had the design and interface done before HP looked at it.
HP liked what they saw and I've heard they worked with Rigol on tweaking the
interface after that.
Rigol roll their own front end samplers too.

Dave.



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Joel, it hasn't been HP for about eight YEARS now!  There's not a
whole lot still in production at Agilent that was designed by HP, and
those scopes certainly weren't.  Agilent is NOT an HP subsidiary.
They are two totally separate companies.

Cheers,
Tom

Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Ah, gotcha.  I was missing your point...



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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**Ouch indeed. If something looks too good to be true.....

For the record: A mate travelled to China late last year (he is a tech) and
I instructed him to find and purchase a Rigol 'scope for me. The prices
asked were not so different to those in Australia. Further: His girlfriend
is Chinese and performed all negotiations for him. He was unable to obtain
one at what I consider was a reasonable price (IE: Around $500.00 for a
model which sells for around $1,800.00 in Oz).

Trevor Wilson



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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Just goes to show that 50 years of Communism didn't squash a good capitalist
idea.
$500 for a $1800 rrp in Oz is bit much of an ask TW.  It isn't an ME
amplifier. :P
Maybe $700 - 800?

Cheers,
Alan



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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**Given that I know of one popular Chinese built CD player which sells in
Australia for nearly $4k and has an FOB price of US$400.00 in China, then,
no. $500.00 sounds about right. Aussies are being gouged for a lot of
Chinese built products right now. If I buy a product which is built in a
developing nation, I expect to pay developing nation prices. It's like my
favourite hiking boots. Ecco. They were made in Denmark and cost $270.00 a
pair. Now, they're made in Malaysia and STILL cost $270.00 a pair. As a
consequence, I no longer support the brand.

Trevor Wilson



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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That doesn't surprise me TW.  Nearly everything is made in 3rd world
countries these days.
Cheap labour, no penalty rates, poor or not existent OH&S, zero
environmental policies - you name it.

Unfortunately most Australian customers are still going to by the Ecco
shoes.  They don't care unless the price actually goes up significantly and
they don't care where they are made or under what conditions.  Just take a
look at Nokia mobile phones.  Still one of the leading brands - now made in
China.

Cheers,
Alan



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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**Yep. If a product is made in a developing nation, it needs to offer
significant differences (lower price, higher performance, etc) for me to buy
it. The difficulty is that as more products are built in DNs, it will be
harder to identify the rip-offs. It is also difficult for consumers to
identify companies which treat employees unfairly. However, experience tells
us that China will eventually move to a fairer system (for employees) and
consequently higher prices to the consumer. I'm guessing this may take at
least 10 years or so.

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**Indeed.

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**That is a good thing and a bad thing. Even though they are sourced from
Malaysia, they are excellent shoes. Unfortunately, the pricing model is
still operating as if they were manufactured in Denmark.

  They don't care unless the price actually goes up significantly and
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**Yep. Unfortunately, Nokia has probably been forced to do so. They operate
in an incredibly competitive market place. Perhaps they should take a leaf
from B&O's book:

http://www.cnet.com.au/mobilephones/phones/0,239025953,339285481,00.htm

A mobile 'phone for 2 GRAND!

AND it's made in Korea!

No camera, no GPS. Just a 'phone and a music player.

Trevor Wilson

Trevor Wilson



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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I fully support your choice in not buying those shoes, but hopefully you
realize that Ecco has a duty to their owners to try to make as much money as
possible, right?  I'm pretty sure that in most companies you'd be kicked off
the board of directors pretty fast if you suggested that you could save on
manufacturing costs while maintaining the same quality (always an "iffy"
question, but let's assume that is the case for the moment) by going
off-shores, and... hey... why don't we drop the prices as well, to pass the
savings on to the consumer, even though our marketing studies indicate our
current prices are considered acceptable by consumers?

Presumably in the Ecco case competition will eventually drive the prices down
or what you're really seeing is a move to not have to *increase* prices due to
inflation and other rising costs.

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Yeah, B&O has always been one of those "high style" brands.  Not a demographic
I'd want to compete in -- I'd fail miserably.

---Joel



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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these:http://www.welec.de/english/05_products/products_01_overview.htm
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eBay:http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OSCILLOSCOPE-1-GS-s-200-MHz-2-CH-4-4-VGA-TFT-D ...
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It turns out that Farnell were silly enough to sell older model Wittig/
Welec brand scopes.
Even listed in the new 2008 catalog.
But conveniently, almost all trace has been wiped from the website.

Dave.

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