Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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I just stumbled across these:
http://www.welec.de/english/05_products/products_01_overview.htm
German "Welec" brand.
Looks incredibly similar to various Agilent offerings (54600, Infinium etc)
in terms of button shape, location, colour, panel silkscreen, and menu
look'n'feel.

I know Rigol design and make the low end Agilents, but this appears to be
something different again.

Plus they are going damn cheap on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OSCILLOSCOPE-1-GS-s-200-MHz-2-CH-4-4-VGA-TFT-DSO-NEW_W0QQitemZ200220200267QQihZ010QQcategoryZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$699 for a 200MHz, 1GS/s, 16KB, VGA screen scope.

Anyone know anything about these?

Dave.



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OSCILLOSCOPE-1-GS-s-200-MHz-2-CH-4-4-VGA-TFT-DSO-NEW_W0QQitemZ200220200267QQihZ010QQcategoryZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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And the datasheet says made in the EU, with a 5 year warranty.
Wittig Test Technologies are the US distributor.

Dave.



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_irQTOUwA


Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Thanks for that.

http://rtr.ca/welec_w2022a /
Ouch! Obviously not re-badge...

Dave.



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Yeah I'll stick to my 45 year old 1S1 1GHz sampler.

Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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I'm amazed that they can come up with the money to purchase plastic moldings
and get some semblance of a production line going yet they can't find some
decent programmers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is that they hired an ME for the case
design and other mechanics, but they're doing the software and hardware design
in-house and simply aren't that good at it... but won't admit it and therefore
hire outside help.

I'm also not convined that just ripping off HP's interface/mechanical design
is really going to garner them many sales they'd otherwise lose... it's not
like anyone's fooled, are they?  I'd take the chance to try to improve on HP's
design or at least come up with your own "style" even if the interface is
largely the same.




Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Some companies do that. Like Instek where I bought a scope a while ago.
It has rather interesting features over and above of what the "big two"
offer. Also a fast PC connection that really helps guys over 40 like me.
Don't have to juggle between 1.5x and 3x glasses anymore when using that
scope. Now if they just hadn't picked those bonbon colors as channel
identifiers ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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Yes, I remember you seemed rather happy with that purchase.  Which model did
you get again?

I like what the cleverscope.com guys have to offer, although I do wish they'd
go above 100MHz (but I guess I'm spoiled when 400MHz 2465s have been around
forever and it's been more than a decade since I've had anything less than
500MHz digital readily available at work).

That Instek GSP-830 spectrum analyzer is looking nice, although they want
$5,400 for it.

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Hmm... and here I was thinking was a useful and inexpensive display/control
something like a Nokia N800 (800x480 4.1" LCD,
http://www.mobilegazette.com/nokia-n800-n76-n93i-6161nfc.htm -- runs Linux,
dirt cheap at $220) or Windows Mobile-based PDA (the ones with 640x480 LCDs...
320x240 is a little crude, as the Tek TDS2000 series of scopes demonstrates)
would be.

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Yeah, most test equpment sure doesn't "look" like test equipment anymore these
days.

John Larkin's stuff still does. :-)

---Joel



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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It is the GDS-2204. The not so nice thing is a lowish screen resolution
but OTOH the screen is rather bright. Had to turn it way down. Often I
use the PC anyway and then you can have all the resolution you want.
It's amazing how many languages they crammed in, some I don't even know
(they are only indicated in their native "hyroglyphs"). Also I don't
like the automatic transition to equivalent time sampling that all those
DSOs do.


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Nowadays you really need more than 100MHz.


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Wait until you grow older. Then a 15" laptop screen is really nice :-)


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I just got used to it and I'd rather accept bonbon colors and 25K
storage depth than Tek look and 2.5k depth.


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However, it does carry a different price tag. He's hinted that there
could be a d.s.e. discount though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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His P400 programmable pulse generator is quite reasonably priced... we almost
bought one at work here, although then the guy who was thinking of needing one
decided he didn't, in fact, need such fast pulses after all.





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I am still using an analog pulse generator, the PM5785B from
Philips/Sweden. Ok, not totally analog since you can click the number of
pulses into a mechanical BCD switch array with rolling number wheels. I
love that little retro gadget in there.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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_HP's_ design??!!  Puleeeezzz!

Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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I know they didn't design the hardware itself, but don't you think they still
"designed" the interface (both GUI and mechanical)?  Or did Rigol or whoever
it was already have that design out before HP came along?



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
On Fri, 2 May 2008 11:30:11 -0700, "Joel Koltner"

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I think his point was that Tek lead with cheap DPO's.(and usable
triggering)

RL

Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

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In the late 1980's I was in the market for a DSO, and I worked for a
company that was a stocking distributor and service center for Tektronics.
However, the programming interface was klunky, and the controls were not
laid out very well. They even had a test board to check performance. I
wound up purchasing a Hitachi storage scope, which I still use today. It's
only 60 MHz but I don't do RF, and it's fine for switching power supplies,
audio, and line frequency work that is my usual fare.

I had always liked HP scopes over Tek, and I still have an HP130A. I liked
their panel layouts, and the large knobs with a subdued color scheme and a
very positive feel. There is a picture of this model (along with racks of
old HP equipment) in this website I found:

http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/hp_tour.htm

I also had one of the HP200B oscillators with rounded corners that was
vintage 1941, but I gave it away with a lot of other old equipment for
which I did not have room (or use). It's nice to know someone cares enough
to preserve this legacy.

Paul



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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IMHO Tek had the better trigger sensitivity and behavior.


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Oh man, my wife would have a fit if I ran a museum as large as that.


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How did they mill the numbers and such into the metal in those days?
They didn't have CNC back then.

I've got an old Rhode&Schwarz SMF that dates back to that era, but with
a tired tube in there. My wife would like it if it went into the hands
of someone who treasures that, as long as that someone isn't me ;-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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That man has a lot of cats.

Oh, and HP equipment too.

I enjoyed his writing about his teaching experiences, e.g.,
http://www.kennethkuhn.com/writings/commentaries/the%20quality%20of%20students%20today.htm
.

---Joel



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http://www.kennethkuhn.com/writings/commentaries/the%20quality%20of%20students%20today.htm
.
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Nice. Although I think he misses an important point. Even today's good
students aren't as good anymore as they came 20 or more years ago. For
EEs the reason is that while they are motivated most never had exposure
to real hardware. Because everything was given to them. When their
radio, toy, whatever broke they just got new one and chucked the broken one.

It's just like with any other task. For example the best drivers are not
the smart cookies but the ones with half a million miles or more under
the belt. Nothing and certainly no amount of school activity can replace
real experience.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Yes, although starting somewhere in the '80s even if they had wanted to repair
the old one it became substantially harder as more and more discrete
components ended up inside of hard-to-source ICs.  I wonder if there are even
any professional TV reapair shops left that troubleshoot to the component
level rather than just the module level?  (Since of course with labor costs
being what they are relative to new modules cost, it's generally cheaper not
to do so.)

---Joel



Re: Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?
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My cousin was driven out of that business quite a few years ago.
Things got both more reliable and more expensive to fix if they did
break, and at the same time, the feature set introduction rate
increased, making it less attractive to keep the old stuff; now it's
replaced even if it is working, just to get new features.

But I don't agree that the current crop of EE grads are inferior; they
are simply different.  Not as large a percentage are into the same
sort of hardware that was designed 20 years ago, but then we're not
designing that sort of hardware now anyway.  An FPGA in BGA running
GHz clock rates on serial ports isn't something you can plug into a
little white breadboard, but inside that part can easily be logic that
would have spilled over ten large logic boards 20 years ago.  The new
grads we've hired in the last few years don't have the same skill set
as new grads of 20 years ago, but I also don't see them being afraid
to do hardware designs.

I'd also be happy to trade some of the 50+ year old long-time drivers
I see on the road around here for some much younger ones that have
gone through driver education and licensing in Germany recently.  Time
behind the wheel doesn't cure idiotic behavior.  One might hope the
worst of the idiots would kill themselves off, but there always seem
to be more to take their places.

Cheers,
Tom

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