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Re: A hifi bargain...

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Well mine easily made 20kHz when I was 20, (sure wish it did now) and I once  
had a girlfriend who could do that at 30. I don't think it's all that  
exceptional.

Trevor.



Re: A hifi bargain...

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Like you did with me a couple of years ago, when I described my audio
set up here. You inexplicably called it a 'kludge of a system', if I
recall correctly :)

I don't think this topic is one of your strong points.

Re: A hifi bargain...

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How is "USB DAC from this PC to a 1965 National valve receiver" not a  
kludge compared to a traditional system?

Oh, and before you jump on me and assume it was derogatory, you forgot  
to mention the smiley I added before we agreed it was largely  
subjective, particularly as we both have a dgree of hearing loss.

So let's not take those comments out of context.

Given all that, why you think your judgement is better then mine is what  
is inexplicable.

Just as some claim they can pick the difference between 192kbps MP3 and  
the same CD track, in the real world that simply doesn't pan out and  
it's no different with cables no matter how technically and  
mathematically the differences may be.



Re: A hifi bargain...


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You haven't explained what's wrong with that. And what's a
'traditional system' in your eyes? Here's a tip - you haven't asked
anything about the DAC in question, what type of files I play, or
anything about that receiver. Never mind speakers. I have a habit of
swapping my amplifiers from time to time, at the time of posting it
was the National receiver that was set up. Can you explain what is
wrong with it?  

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It's inexplicable that you haven't explained what is wrong with it.
You also haven't given an example of what you think is good.

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It does pan out. I'm one of them... anything under 192K and I can pick
the difference. But I suspect you already know this, since you
specified 192K and I know I've made posts before saying exactly the
same thing.

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Righto... :)

Re: A hifi bargain...

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I didn't say there is anything wrong with it.


And what's a
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Off the shelf component systems.

Here's a tip - you haven't asked
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Sure, but you said you particularly like the sound of old (70's IIRC)  
stuff on that setup. Given how that material was recorded and all the  
other factors it's down to a subjective personal preference to the  
sound. I've got valve equipment too. Do I like the sound of it? Sure.
It's different to my component system, but better technically - I doubt it.


  Never mind speakers. I have a habit of
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Again, I didn't say there is anything wrong with it. But I'm sure you  
know that USB DAC's connected to PC's are notoriously noisy.

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It's subjective. What I think is good is probably unacceptable to you.  
I'm quite happy with my Yamaha component system, and I have Stromberg  
Carlsson receiver that I brought back from the dead that I like to  
listen to. My musical tastes varies quite a bit, so some stuff sounds  
better on my system then other stuff but it's a compromise.

I personally hate connecting stuff to my laptop and PC because the noise  
that is introduced annoys me.

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But not which is which in a double blind trial.

  But I suspect you already know this, since you
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160k is about where it all levels out for most people.

Try this test for fun.

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/mp3-sound-quality-test-128-320/

and this one

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/

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Given that you are over 25 and have suffered hearing loss why would you  
think you could possibly hear the difference?



Re: A hifi bargain...


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<snip>
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I thought it was a 'kludge' of a system? ;)

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Well, so is my setup? Much of it is vintage gear, but it's been
restored professionally.

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I agree with that. But weren't you arguing *against* the technical
(specs) with Trev on this thread earlier? My Sansui AU717 (which I'm
currently using) is better technically, and IMO is better than my
Luxman 38FD as well.

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Uh, not really. This is my DAC: http://eeaudio.com/eeaudio_20102.htm
I think you'll find it stacks up pretty well against the majority of
CD players out there.


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That's fair enough.

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There's no need for noise just because your source is a PC or
laptop... seriously.

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The speakers on this PC are the built in speakers for this monitor,
which are crap. Otherwise I'd give it a go.

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Admittedly I haven't done any testing since circa 2000, but back then
I tested myself and I know 192K was the bit rate where I could begin
picking the difference. My method may or may not be prefect, but I
burned my own CD using WAV files, and mp3 files of the same converted
back to WAV again.

Re: A hifi bargain...

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I'm saying the technical specs are largely irrelevant, and especially  
when it comes to cables.

My Sansui AU717 (which I'm
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Introduced bus noise from the PC side through the power supply seems to  
be the biggest issue, that's not to say you have that problem and that  
does seem a nice piece of gear.

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I haven't had much luck.

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Fair enough.


Things change in 14 years ;-)

Curiously in the first test above my limit seems to be 15khz, which I  
can hear clearly but 16khz - nothing. My other half who reminds me that  
I'm deaf often and is quite a bit younger can't hear 15khz, her limit is  
14khz. Must be selective hearing loss ;-)



Re: A hifi bargain...


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What rubbish, you are about 20 years behind the times with that comment. My  
USB ADC/DAC can do better than 118dB S/N below DFS on loopback, and less  
than 0.002% THD. (And for the record, there are internal PCI cards that do  
just as well also) Easily better than CD is capable of.


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Time you bought something better then. Go to a pro audio shop, or look on  
the net. They are not that expensive for two channels now.

 Trevor.



Re: A hifi bargain...
On 25/07/2014 5:44 PM, Trevor wrote:

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Pity about all the people reporting that very issue online right now then.


My
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Both my PC and laptop introduce a lot of background noise. Mileage may  
vary I suppose.

Re: A hifi bargain...

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Then they are 20 years behind as well, so what? Some of them weren't born at  
the time so have an excuse.


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As I said, time you got a better one then.

Trevor.



Re: A hifi bargain...

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Why do I not see this problem crop up very often (if at all) on
StereoNet after all these years?  

What a bizarre statement that USB DACs are notoriously noisy :) I've
owned two and neither were the slightest bit noisy. These people
Clocky speaks of must buy absolute crap, I don't have any other
explanation for it.


Re: A hifi bargain...

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The problem isn't the USB DAC, it's the ground noise. USB doesn't  
provide much ground isolation, so the noise level you get depends on a  
lot of things apart from how good your sound card is.

Re: A hifi bargain...
On Fri, 01 Aug 2014 12:44:49 +1000, Clifford Heath


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Fairy nuff, but not clear on where the sound card comes into it if
using USB? Are there sound cards now with USB out? Like I said, I'm
not clear on any of that :)

Also for clarification, what I'm using is an entirely external DAC.  
PC - USB - DAC, then RCA cables to the amplifier.

Re: A hifi bargain...


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Some simply use the name "soundcard" for internal, or external ADC-DAC audio  
devices.


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Plenty of USB (and firewire) in/out sound devices available. Have been for  
very *many* years!


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Most devices are simply ADC and DAC in one box, otherwise exactly the same  
as what you are using, *except* far better quality that what Clocky  
obviously has!

Trevor.



Re: A hifi bargain...
On 1/08/2014 2:32 PM, Trevor wrote:

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Quality has nothing to do with it for the most part.



Re: A hifi bargain...

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Er what are you on about, the whole argument WAS about quality! Your device  
is obviously noisy (low quality) and you *mistakenly* claimed all USB  
devices are. Something easily proven incorrect by simple measurement of any  
*good* (high quality) device.

Trevor.



Re: A hifi bargain...
On 5/08/2014 1:37 PM, Trevor wrote:
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You make the assumption that my devices are low quality, they're not.

Yet it has ground isolation noise that is audible to me.

Maybe you just can't hear it.



Re: A hifi bargain...

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IF they have noise problems as you say, then they *ARE* low quality, simple  
as that!!!

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Then it *IS* low quality, simple as that, since many others don't !!!

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Right, no way I (or you) can hear -118dB that *my* USB audio device does, as  
it's measurement proves. Even at 16/44 it is equal to the CD spec, and FAR  
exceeds any commercial music CD!
You obviously have no idea how to make any measurements, or what they mean,  
so keep pretending your obviously crappy device is as good as it gets. I  
suggest you actually try a decent device for your own listening pleasure,  
and so we can end this pointless argument!

Trevor.




Re: A hifi bargain...

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Must be...

Re: A hifi bargain...

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Not so, a good sound card or USB device provides it's own isolation. The  
proof is in the measurements.

Trevor.



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