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Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
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  that's with approval and landed here.. I don't know how they do it but
that's  the cost on the invoice I have here.
How much to import all the parts from China while
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  very rare if the claim is made , I would think the only thing needing
a tick is the inverter  and maybe the battery ? but its  like the prius
battery I guess
  - and what if they don't? You still have to pay for installation at
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  the install doesn't take long apart from the board which is a couple
of hours max
  One would imagine that Nuenergy would
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  agreed ... so how do they make $ ?
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  why ?
  surely it's an invoice which may or may not be relevant to the actual
cost ?
which has to be done
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  nah
  Do you think they would approve
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why not  ?

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:>
:> :Ross Herbert wrote:
:> wrote:
:> :>
:> :> I meant to say;
:> :>
:> :> :I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are
:> providing
:> :> :and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are
doing
:> :> :installations for free.
:> :its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means
:> :in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale
:> :but .. looks better now
:>
:>
:> So $US4K is approx $AU5K3.
:  that's with approval and landed here.. I don't know how they do it but
:that's  the cost on the invoice I have here.
:How much to import all the parts from China while
:> making sure they comply with Australian standards? Who verifies that they do
:> comply
:  very rare if the claim is made , I would think the only thing needing
:a tick is the inverter  and maybe the battery ? but its  like the prius
:battery I guess
:  - and what if they don't? You still have to pay for installation at
:> current labour costs on top of all this.
:  the install doesn't take long apart from the board which is a couple
:of hours max
:  One would imagine that Nuenergy would
:> still be trying to make a profit on top of all the charges so it still can't
be
:> done for zero out of pocket expenses as claimed by Nuenergy.
:  agreed ... so how do they make $ ?
:>
:> It should also be remembered that all the costs have to be submitted to the
:> Australian goverment when applying for the $8K rebate,
:  why ?
:  surely it's an invoice which may or may not be relevant to the actual
:cost ?
:which has to be done
:> before you even place anorder for the equipment.
:  nah
:  Do you think they would approve
:> the rebate if you were not going to actually have an out of pocket expense?
:
:why not  ?

Have you actually downloaded and read the application form?
http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/renewable/pv/pubs/shcp-application-residential-21may2008.pdf

I would say that you appear convinced of the validity of the Nuenergy (and other
similar) offer so I can only recommend that you give it a try and see what
happens. Then report back after it has been operating for a year and let us know
how it is performing.

Personally, I would want a reputable company behind the supply of recognised
brand name equipment and a reputable qualified installer so that if there is any
comeback later, I can actually talk to a real person who will have to take up my
complaint.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
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  no reason to
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http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/renewable/pv/pubs/shcp-application-residential-21may2008.pdf
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  nah

(and other
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  not any time soon as we already have a very large system well below
retail
  Then report back after it has been operating for a year and let us know
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  show the way sunshine
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any
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my
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  that's why I imported my own much cheaper

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Ross,


(For some reason, my news server (optusnet) has dropped a few of your
posts, and I only see this reply, but I was able to post your reply in
from google groups):

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of
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I think it is inappropriate to try and compare your high-end
Sharp/Fronius system to NuEnergy. They are not claiming to supply anyone
with Sharp/Fronius, so a price comparison doesn't mean much.

They clearly state that the inverter is a Sunny Boy 1100W, and their
panels are "CEEG". See this link for CEEG:
http://www.ceegsst.com/English/Aboutus.asp

I wasn't too sure about the brand of panels, so I did a bit of googling
and reading, and it's true that this brand of panels is fairly new on
the market (i.e not well known), but one of their technicians/directors
is an associate professor in PV from UNSW. You can see his profile here:
http://www.pv.unsw.edu.au/Staff/jianhuazhao.asp

These CEEG panels are much cheaper than Sharp, and obviously they are
paying a bulk-purchase price, which will be cheaper than the prices you
see on typical places such as energymatters, who are trying to make a
profit when they sell panels to end users.

According to an active Whirlpool forum, they might be paying down to
$800/panel or less.. (Not vouching for its authenticity though).

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think that's a typical end user price with big mark up. If you buy
these in bulk and at wholesale, they are much cheaper. How can
energymatters make any money if they didn't add a mark up for themselves?

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You're correct that it is impossible for a company to supply something
without making a profit. Especially with solar, since there is not much
scope for "repeated business". Once you get your system, you might not
deal with them again for a long time. Therefore they must be able to
make a profit (or be a scam). Note that NuEnergy aren't the only ones, I
just got pointed to: http://www.statesolarservices.com.au/index.php who
have also started to offer a low cost (i.e almost free) solar system to
those that have the rebate. They do use the lower cost Latronics
inverter, and their panels are "Fullgreen Solar" (taken from their FAQ).

There are either a great amount of scammers starting to appear, or due
to a bulk-purchasing and the perceived rush for solar rebates, a number
of companies have been able to secure large amounts of panels and
inverters at low cost. I also heard that Sunny boy will soon discontinue
their 1100W inverter for a newer model, which supports the theory of
cheaper bulk purchases, as they may be clearing them.

Regarding NuEnergy as a company, I have heard (but not verified) that
they have been in business for over 20 years, and that their new CEO has
a decent track record. They're also members of the "Clean Energy
Council", which apparently charges a fee every year for
membership/approval, so they don't really strike me as a backyard
operation/scam.

It's also worth mentioning that a lot of smaller installers are up in
arms at the appearance of low cost PV systems (via a rebate) since they
can't really compete with large companies and their large buying power.
Understandably they are biased, and will spread all sorts of
information, some of which may be untrue, but they are trying to protect
their market of course. You wrote yourself that you hadn't looked at
their site, but had been in discussion with someone, is he the person
that suggested that they use "cheap chinese inverters of unknown
pedigree"? (This was untrue).

Despite all this, they might still be a scam, it's a tough call.. (Not
everyone can afford a high grade system, certainly not my parents).

Regards,

Ross..

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:Hi Ross,
:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:
:(For some reason, my news server (optusnet) has dropped a few of your
:posts, and I only see this reply, but I was able to post your reply in
:from google groups):
:
:> I fail to see how they can both supply the equioment AND carry out the
:> installation for less than the $8K rebate plus RECS.
:>
:> If you wanted to install a similar quality system to the Sharp 1kW system
:> yourself then look at the costs involved;
:>
:> PV panels Sharp 24V 175W NTR5E3E cost $1,550 each
:> http://www.energymatters.com.au/sharp-solar-panel-175watt-24volt-mono ...
:> and a Fronius IG15 inverter costs $3,074
:> http://www.energymatters.com.au/fronius-1500watt-grid-connect-inverte ...
:>
:> These 2 items alone account for $12,374 alone for a 1kW system so even if you
:> receive $9000 in rebate and RECS you still have to find $3,374 PLUS
extraneous
:> materials such as roof frame, isolator CB's, cabling etc, plus contractor
:> labour. Remember, If you don't use a contractor who is certified to install
:> solar PV systems you don't get the $8K rebate, so that expense must be on top
of
:> all other items.
:
:I think it is inappropriate to try and compare your high-end
:Sharp/Fronius system to NuEnergy. They are not claiming to supply anyone
:with Sharp/Fronius, so a price comparison doesn't mean much.
:
:They clearly state that the inverter is a Sunny Boy 1100W, and their
:panels are "CEEG". See this link for CEEG:
:http://www.ceegsst.com/English/Aboutus.asp
:
:I wasn't too sure about the brand of panels, so I did a bit of googling
:and reading, and it's true that this brand of panels is fairly new on
:the market (i.e not well known), but one of their technicians/directors
:is an associate professor in PV from UNSW. You can see his profile here:
:http://www.pv.unsw.edu.au/Staff/jianhuazhao.asp
:
:These CEEG panels are much cheaper than Sharp, and obviously they are
:paying a bulk-purchase price, which will be cheaper than the prices you
:see on typical places such as energymatters, who are trying to make a
:profit when they sell panels to end users.
:
:According to an active Whirlpool forum, they might be paying down to
:$800/panel or less.. (Not vouching for its authenticity though).
:
:> Even using a Sunny Boy 1100W inverter instead of a Fronius IG15 will set you
:> back around $2,360
:> http://www.energymatters.com.au/sma-sunny-boy-1100watt-grid-connect-i ...
:
:I think that's a typical end user price with big mark up. If you buy
:these in bulk and at wholesale, they are much cheaper. How can
:energymatters make any money if they didn't add a mark up for themselves?
:
:> It is impossible for Nuenergy to provide and install anything approaching the
:> quality of the Sharp 1kW system (or even the Sunny Boy/Uni-Solar) for the
cost
:> of the $8K rebate plus RECS while still making a profit. It has to be a scam.
:
:You're correct that it is impossible for a company to supply something
:without making a profit. Especially with solar, since there is not much
:scope for "repeated business". Once you get your system, you might not
:deal with them again for a long time. Therefore they must be able to
:make a profit (or be a scam). Note that NuEnergy aren't the only ones, I
:just got pointed to: http://www.statesolarservices.com.au/index.php who
:have also started to offer a low cost (i.e almost free) solar system to
:those that have the rebate. They do use the lower cost Latronics
:inverter, and their panels are "Fullgreen Solar" (taken from their FAQ).
:
:There are either a great amount of scammers starting to appear, or due
:to a bulk-purchasing and the perceived rush for solar rebates, a number
:of companies have been able to secure large amounts of panels and
:inverters at low cost. I also heard that Sunny boy will soon discontinue
:their 1100W inverter for a newer model, which supports the theory of
:cheaper bulk purchases, as they may be clearing them.
:
:Regarding NuEnergy as a company, I have heard (but not verified) that
:they have been in business for over 20 years, and that their new CEO has
:a decent track record. They're also members of the "Clean Energy
:Council", which apparently charges a fee every year for
:membership/approval, so they don't really strike me as a backyard
:operation/scam.
:
:It's also worth mentioning that a lot of smaller installers are up in
:arms at the appearance of low cost PV systems (via a rebate) since they
:can't really compete with large companies and their large buying power.
:Understandably they are biased, and will spread all sorts of
:information, some of which may be untrue, but they are trying to protect
:their market of course. You wrote yourself that you hadn't looked at
:their site, but had been in discussion with someone, is he the person
:that suggested that they use "cheap chinese inverters of unknown
:pedigree"? (This was untrue).
:
:Despite all this, they might still be a scam, it's a tough call.. (Not
:everyone can afford a high grade system, certainly not my parents).
:
:Regards,
:
:Ross..

After what you have discovered I have to admit that it seems possible through
bulk purchase and using low cost Chinese panels it may be possible to get down
to a price approaching $2000 (or even less as for Nuenergy) out of pocket
expense for a 1kW system.

I did take a look at the free offer on Nuenergy site and there is one statement
which I think may be misleading. It says;

"Essentially, the householder simply agrees that the rebate will be paid to NU
Energy."

Now if Nuenergy gets the business they hope for it would not be unreasonable for
them to be installing say ten 1kW systems per week. It takes about 6 weeks
before the federal government comes good with the $8K rebate. If a purchaser has
a system installed for no money out of his pocket, as inferred by the Nuenergy
free offer statement, this means that the supplier (Nuenergy) must carry the $8K
debt on each system installed for up to 6 weeks. Now 10 x 6 = 60 systems, 60 x
$8K = $480,000. Therefore, Nuenergy would have to carry nearly half-a-million
dollars worth of overhead debt before starting to receive any $8K rebates back
from the government for the first week of installations. I doubt very much that
Nuenergy would be prepared to be so magnanimous. I would think that Nuenergy, as
do most other suppliers, would insist on the customer paying the actual out of
pocket expenses (say $8K) at completion of the installation so that the customer
is the one to carry the debt until the government pays the rebate back to him.

Of course I may be wrong (again), but a company carrying this sort of debt while
waiting for the government to pay the rebates sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Ross,


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for
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has
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$8K
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as
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customer
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while
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My understanding is that NuEnergy will not install anything at all
unless you have been pre-approved for the rebate. There are a number of
installers out there already, that hold the debt for you, and only ask
for the out-of-pocket costs ($500-$5000), since they expect to get the
rebate (it's pre-approved) and they probably have credit arrangements
with their suppliers that will cover the 6 weeks or so delay in getting
the rebate.

If a supplier of PV systems were to ask the customer to front up with
$8K, (later refunded by the government) it would present quite a barrier
to many customers. I know that some installers do this, which is a major
turn off for me. If you read the T&C of NuEnergy they state clearly that
they operate on the proviso that a minimum number of orders will be
made, and that they won't ship/supply until a threshold is reached
(assumedly to enact their bulk buying arrangement). They probably have
credit arrangements with suppliers, or they will hold the debt
themselves, since they are guaranteed to receive the money. I saw on
their website that they are currently "capital raising".

In holding the debt for the customer, I wouldn't call it magnanimous,
I'd call it business. They know that $8K is a big barrier, they want to
sell a lot of systems, they therefore have no choice but to cover the
initial $8K cost, lest they fail in their endeavour.

 From the T&C, I'm 100% sure that the customer will pay nothing beyond
the $2500 deposit (which is later mostly refunded). Also the price of
RECS is changing very soon, perhaps they plan to benefit from this,
since the rollout of systems will take at least a couple months from now
to even begin (assuming that the new higher price of RECS is available
even to those who receive the old rebate, and who haven't 'sold' their
RECS yet).

Regards,

Ross..


Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:Hi Ross,
:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:
:> "Essentially, the householder simply agrees that the rebate will be paid to
NU
:> Energy."
:>
:> Now if Nuenergy gets the business they hope for it would not be unreasonable
for
:> them to be installing say ten 1kW systems per week. It takes about 6 weeks
:> before the federal government comes good with the $8K rebate. If a purchaser
has
:> a system installed for no money out of his pocket, as inferred by the
Nuenergy
:> free offer statement, this means that the supplier (Nuenergy) must carry the
$8K
:> debt on each system installed for up to 6 weeks. Now 10 x 6 = 60 systems, 60
x
:> $8K = $480,000. Therefore, Nuenergy would have to carry nearly half-a-million
:> dollars worth of overhead debt before starting to receive any $8K rebates
back
:> from the government for the first week of installations. I doubt very much
that
:> Nuenergy would be prepared to be so magnanimous. I would think that Nuenergy,
as
:> do most other suppliers, would insist on the customer paying the actual out
of
:> pocket expenses (say $8K) at completion of the installation so that the
customer
:> is the one to carry the debt until the government pays the rebate back to
him.
:>
:> Of course I may be wrong (again), but a company carrying this sort of debt
while
:> waiting for the government to pay the rebates sounds a bit far fetched to me.
:
:My understanding is that NuEnergy will not install anything at all
:unless you have been pre-approved for the rebate. There are a number of
:installers out there already, that hold the debt for you, and only ask
:for the out-of-pocket costs ($500-$5000), since they expect to get the
:rebate (it's pre-approved) and they probably have credit arrangements
:with their suppliers that will cover the 6 weeks or so delay in getting
:the rebate.

The rebate may be pre-approved but it isn't paid until the installation is
complete and the installer's report submitted back to the government. It then
takes about 6 weeks to come through to whoever is nominated to receive it. If a
small installer is only going to ask for the out of pocket expenses and is
prepared to carry the outstanding $8K for 6 weeks in these financially trying
times then I would be surprised. Enviro-Friendly say they can't afford to carry
the debt and they are installing 5 systems per week currently.

:
:If a supplier of PV systems were to ask the customer to front up with
:$8K, (later refunded by the government) it would present quite a barrier
:to many customers. I know that some installers do this, which is a major
:turn off for me. If you read the T&C of NuEnergy they state clearly that
:they operate on the proviso that a minimum number of orders will be
:made, and that they won't ship/supply until a threshold is reached
:(assumedly to enact their bulk buying arrangement). They probably have
:credit arrangements with suppliers, or they will hold the debt
:themselves, since they are guaranteed to receive the money. I saw on
:their website that they are currently "capital raising".

In order to raise capital they have to provide substantial collateral and they
have to pay whatever interest the lender is asking. What business has ever
allowed the customer to use their money for 6 weeks (or longer) without charging
interest? Even credit cards only give you 4 weeks, and then it's 20 odd percent
till it's paid off.

:
:In holding the debt for the customer, I wouldn't call it magnanimous,
:I'd call it business. They know that $8K is a big barrier, they want to
:sell a lot of systems, they therefore have no choice but to cover the
:initial $8K cost, lest they fail in their endeavour.

This may seem like good business to the customer but in the current financial
crisis a small business would be hard pressed to carry several hundred thousand
$ (or more) in debt for 6 weeks, even at the relatively low interest rates of
today. I would be surprised if any business these days would allow a customer
to, in  effect, borrow $8K interest-free, from them for 6 weeks. The banks
certainly aren't going to advance any capital to a business to bulk buy PV
systems from China without very good collateral and they certainly won't do it
interest-free either. Somebody must pay, and if the customer isn't paying for it
then Nuenergy, who must be operating on a very small margin in the hope of
receiving a large volume of orders, has to carry debt as well as the interest.In
fact, the more orders they receive, the larger the outstanding debt will be.  

:
: From the T&C, I'm 100% sure that the customer will pay nothing beyond
:the $2500 deposit (which is later mostly refunded). Also the price of
:RECS is changing very soon, perhaps they plan to benefit from this,
:since the rollout of systems will take at least a couple months from now
:to even begin (assuming that the new higher price of RECS is available
:even to those who receive the old rebate, and who haven't 'sold' their
:RECS yet).
:
:Regards,
:
:Ross..

The RECS payout will also only be paid after the 6 weeks following submission of
the installation report.

All I can say is, if you are convinced the offer is good then give it a go and
let us know the result. However, remember what they say, "if it looks too good
to be true, it probably is." To me, It looks too good to be true - but then I am
rather skeptical.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Ross,


< .. >

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am
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I'm also a skeptic, which is why I didn't run out and sign up
immediately (or yet). But I didn't want to dismiss it as a scam either,
in accepting that bulk purchases of lower end systems for a reduced
price, are probably possible..

Regards,

Ross..

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

SNIP
:> :  So $US4K is approx $AU5K3.
 
:> that's with approval and landed here.. I don't know how they do it but
:> that's  the cost on the invoice I have here.

I can't argue with that fact then.

:> :>You still have to pay for installation at
:> :> current labour costs on top of all this.

:> :  the install doesn't take long apart from the board which is a couple
:> :of hours max

Not from what I have seen. It took 2 blokes to fit the mounting frame and place
the panels on the roof. The "boy" then took off and left the 2 experienced
blokes there to install the inverter and ac/dc isolator box, run the cabling and
install the required isolator in the meter box, and place the labels as required
by the local authority and then testing the system. It took about 3-1/2 hours
all up. If you are doing a one man installation I think you would be lucky to do
it (properly) inside 6 hours.

BTW, unless you are a registered solar installer you won't qualify for the
rebate.

:> :> It should also be remembered that all the costs have to be submitted to
the
:> :> Australian goverment when applying for the $8K rebate,
 
:> :  why ?
:> :  surely it's an invoice which may or may not be relevant to the actual
:> :cost ?

No. the application for the rebate must be made BEFORE you place an order for
the equipment other wise you don't qualify. That's why you should have read the
guidelines and studied the application form because on that form it asks for a
breakdown of equipment plus costs.

:> :which has to be done
:> :> before you even place anorder for the equipment.
:> :  nah

Read the guidelines for making an application for the rebate..

:> :  Do you think they would approve
:> :> the rebate if you were not going to actually have an out of pocket
expense?
:> :
:> :why not  ?

Because it is the prerogative of the federal government to refuse the rebate if
they think you are not making any contribution at all to the cost of the system.

:>
:> Have you actually downloaded and read the application form?
:  no reason to

Then you haven't applied for the rebate have you?

:>
http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/renewable/pv/pubs/shcp-application-residential-21may2008.pdf
:>
:> I would say that you appear convinced of the validity of the Nuenergy
:  nah
:
:(and other
:> similar) offer so I can only recommend that you give it a try and see what
:> happens.
:  not any time soon as we already have a very large system well below
:retail
:  Then report back after it has been operating for a year and let us know
:> how it is performing.

:  show the way sunshine

I suppose that remark could be a pun...
I have no problem reporting back after a period of operation of my system.

:>
:> Personally, I would want a reputable company behind the supply of recognised
:> brand name equipment and a reputable qualified installer so that if there is
any
:> comeback later, I can actually talk to a real person who will have to take up
my
:> complaint.

:  that's why I imported my own much cheaper


Granted. But, you haven't read the guidelines for making application for the
rebate. If you had you would have seen that you must be approved for the rebate
before placing an order for any equipment and onthe application you must
nominate both the supplier of the equipment and the registered installer along
with his company name and registraton number. Unless you did this or you are a
qualified/registered solar installer yourself (assuming you are going to install
it yourself), you won't get the rebate anyway. Looks like you will end up paying
roughly as much as I did for an inferior system..

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
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and
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required
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do
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system.
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http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/renewable/pv/pubs/shcp-application-residential-21may2008.pdf
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up
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  thats so wrong it's painful , I used a licensed sparky doing the
majority of work myself having the required trade certs ,
(assuming you are going to install
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  wrong
Looks like you will end up paying
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  utterly wrong ..



  "hands hanky to wipe egg "

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

SNIP
:> Granted. But, you haven't read the guidelines for making application for the
:> rebate. If you had you would have seen that you must be approved for the
rebate
:> before placing an order for any equipment and onthe application you must
:> nominate both the supplier of the equipment and the registered installer
along
:> with his company name and registraton number. Unless you did this or you are
a
:> qualified/registered solar installer yourself

:  thats so wrong it's painful , I used a licensed sparky doing the
:majority of work myself having the required trade certs ,

:(assuming you are going to install
:> it yourself), you won't get the rebate anyway.

:  wrong

:Looks like you will end up paying
:> roughly as much as I did for an inferior system..


:  utterly wrong ..
:
*****************
You seem to answer in very short sentences which don't convey much information,
so pardon me if I have to make some assumptions based on your answers.

Let's highlight a few points you may have overlooked. You said you hadn't read
the rebate application form or guideline document. You say you already have the
equipment which you imported from China. Correct? So have you ensured that it
meets the relevant Australian standards as listed here?

"To receive the rebate all the equipment in the system
must be new and meet the relevant Australian
Standards.
 
All systems, components and equipment must comply
with, and be designed and installed in accordance
with all relevant Australian Standards or, where such
does not exist, with the relevant international
standard. Australian Standards include, but are not
limited to:
•      AS/NZS 3000 – Electrical installations  
•      AS 4509 – Stand-alone power systems
•      AS 4086 – Secondary batteries for use with stand-
alone power systems  
•      AS 4777 – Grid connection of energy systems via
inverters
•      AS/NZS 5033 – Installation of photovoltaic (PV)
arrays (currently under review)
•      AS/NZS 1170 – Structural design actions; and
•      any other standard called upon by the above or
other relevant standards.
Photovoltaic modules must be tested and certified to
IEC61215 or IEC61646 by a laboratory registered
under the International Electrotechnical Commission’s
(IEC) CB scheme to test these standards."

****************
You say above you "used a licensed sparky...". This implies to me that you have
already installed the system. Correct?

Does your sparky/installer appear on the list of accredited installers? (Qld
installers appear on p.31 - 40)
http://www.bcse.org.au/docs/STA/Installers%20List/AccInstallers%20List%20-%20all%20post%20-%20090423.pdf

The guideline states;

"Competent designer and installer

To be eligible for a rebate the applicant must be able
to demonstrate that the person who carries out the
photovoltaic installation is accredited (full or
provisional) for design and installation of photovoltaic
systems by the Australian Business Council for
Sustainable Energy. Details of accredited designers
and installers are available at
www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/
A licensed electrical contractor must carry out the
electrical work associated with the wiring in the
building and in the power system, in compliance with
regulations in the state or territory in which the
installation is undertaken."

Care to tell us if he is on the list?

***********
You say you haven't read the rebate application. So, has it been completed and
submitted?

"When should the application be lodged?

The Residential application for pre-approval must be
submitted to and approved by the Program Manager
before the system installation commences.  
A rebate will NOT be paid for equipment installed
without pre-approval being granted."

On page 3 of the guideline it states categorically;
"A rebate will NOT be paid for equipment installed without pre-approval being
granted."

and on page 5;

"Notification of pre-approval
Applicants will be notified in writing if the pre-approval
has been granted or not within six weeks from receipt
of the complete application.

The notification of pre-approval will set out any
additional compliance requirements. The pre-approval
will expire nine months after the date it is granted.

On receipt of pre-approval, successful applicants
should immediately notify their installer so that
materials can be ordered and installation
commenced."

************
Finally, have you actually received an approval of your application for the
rebate?

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Quoted text here. Click to load it
I will tell you nothing
  over to the >troll file

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:>
:> :Ross Herbert wrote:
wrote:
:> SNIP
:> :> Granted. But, you haven't read the guidelines for making application for
the
:> :> rebate. If you had you would have seen that you must be approved for the
:> rebate
:> :> before placing an order for any equipment and onthe application you must
:> :> nominate both the supplier of the equipment and the registered installer
:> along
:> :> with his company name and registraton number. Unless you did this or you
are
:> a
:> :> qualified/registered solar installer yourself
:>
:> :  thats so wrong it's painful , I used a licensed sparky doing the
:> :majority of work myself having the required trade certs ,
:>
:> :(assuming you are going to install
:> :> it yourself), you won't get the rebate anyway.
:>
:> :  wrong
:>
:> :Looks like you will end up paying
:> :> roughly as much as I did for an inferior system..
:>
:>
:> :  utterly wrong ..
:> :
:> *****************
:> You seem to answer in very short sentences which don't convey much
information,
:> so pardon me if I have to make some assumptions based on your answers.
:>
:I will tell you nothing
:  over to the >troll file

So you can't provide valid answers to my questions eh?

Going by what have I seen in the multitude of forums you subscribe to, and
participate in, it is you who is the troll...

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
On Fri, 08 May 2009 17:44:47 +1000, Ross Vumbaca

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I had the same problem with broken threads when I was with Optusnet.

If your newsreader supports it, add a second news server to your list.

Here is a free one -- nntp.aioe.org

Configure your newsreader to receive messages from both servers. In
this way any message not available from Optusnet will be delivered by
Aioe.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Franc,


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Thanks for the tip. Doesn't look like my newsreader (Thunderbird)
supports reading from a second server though (unless I set it up as an
additional account) :-\.

Regards,

Ross..

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes. In Thunderbird, you have to set up a new account to use another
news server. It doesn't support merging posts from multiple servers.

--
    W
  . | ,. w ,   "Some people are alive only because
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Looks like the suppliers are now actively targeting the vulnerable.
My mum and all the residents in her retirement village have just received an
offer from "Sancturary Energy" to install a 1kW system on individual
dwellings for $9000 which would supposedly be "at no cost to them" ($8000
grant + $1000 REC's). It looks like they specialise in this:
http://www.sanctuaryenergy.com.au/Packages-retirement.html
The installer is SolarSave:
http://www.solarsave.com.au/index.html

http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Solar1.jpg
http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Solar2.jpg

You have to sign up to Sanctuary as your energy supplier of course. And the
company supposedly has finance to cover the cost of the installation between
when it's installed and when the grant comes through.
No studies are done on individual dwellings to even see if it's even
feasible for them, they are just telling everyone they can save money if
they sign up.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:Looks like the suppliers are now actively targeting the vulnerable.
:My mum and all the residents in her retirement village have just received an
:offer from "Sancturary Energy" to install a 1kW system on individual
:dwellings for $9000 which would supposedly be "at no cost to them" ($8000
:grant + $1000 REC's). It looks like they specialise in this:
:http://www.sanctuaryenergy.com.au/Packages-retirement.html
:The installer is SolarSave:
:http://www.solarsave.com.au/index.html
:
:
http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Solar1.jpg
:
http://www.alternatezone.com/images/Solar2.jpg
:
:You have to sign up to Sanctuary as your energy supplier of course. And the
:company supposedly has finance to cover the cost of the installation between
:when it's installed and when the grant comes through.
:No studies are done on individual dwellings to even see if it's even
:feasible for them, they are just telling everyone they can save money if
:they sign up.
:
:Dave.

There could be all sorts of complications arising out of such promotions to
people living in retirement villages. If the residents don't own their own
residence in that village (and they rarely do) they must seek permission from
the owner before installing anything on that premises.

The PV installation is the property of the applicant, who is not necessarily the
owner of the premises. What happens to the PV ownership when they die? I fear
the kids would have great difficulty if they wanted to remove it and install it
somewhere else. Such offers are predatory IMO and the promoters know that most
of the elderly in these situations wouldn't be around long enough to realise the
payback for a PV installation so they would flog them the cheapest components
they could get away with. They are simply looking to capture as much of the
government supplied free money as they can before it dries up.

I can't see this sort of promotion working out at all and any retiree in such
circumstances who may be considering the offer should do some thorough checking
externally, not just take the promoter's word as gospel.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes indeed. Although that's not the case in this particular situation.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

My sentiments exactly.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes, and there is very little real information supplied with the info pack
they got.
The company is sending a rep around to answer any questions at a community
meeting, but most people wouldn't know what the important questions are. I
advised my mum to avoid it completely, and she liked the sound of that.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:53:30 +1000, "David L. Jones"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

From reading the eligibility requirements for the rebate, the
applicant can only install the Solar System at the address
of the owner of the premises as shown in the electoral roll.
This would prevent a  non owner from installing a system
even if the owner agreed to it.
Its even more vague if a person is the owner, but doesnt own the roof
in the case of a strata titled multi storey apartment.

Or if the person lives in a caravan park and owns the van.
People who rent seem to be totally excluded.


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