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Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

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<http://www.usenet-replayer.com/groups/alt.binaries.schematics.electronic.html
has most of the binary posts from ABSE.  It is slow to update, and
doesn't get everything, but it is something for those with no accessto
binary newsgroups.  It is for veiwing only, no posting.

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Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

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   Get a free Flicker account, and post your images there.  More and
more people are losing access to any binary newsgroup, because of abuse
and the required bandwidth.


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Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
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Awesome.
Show us some pics!

How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?

Dave.



Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running



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benefit
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Whats' the value of the saved electricity and when do you expect to see a 'break
even point' for the installation including cost of finance or lost interest on
capital ?

What's your location btw ? I assume the panel isn't a tracking type and is set
for
optimum fixed radiation over the year.

Graham



Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
On Tue, 05 May 2009 09:51:56 GMT, Ross Herbert

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I saw this on TV last night:
http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php

What's the catch? The net cost for a 1kW system appears to be $450,
the cost of the smart meter.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running


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Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:On Tue, 05 May 2009 09:51:56 GMT, Ross Herbert
:
:>Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the
benefit
:>on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less
than
:>at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
:>sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:>
:>For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
:>that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
:>runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:
:I saw this on TV last night:
:http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php
:
:What's the catch? The net cost for a 1kW system appears to be $450,
:the cost of the smart meter.
:
:- Franc Zabkar

The Nuenergy offer is basically a SCAM. The PV panels are of unknown make and
can be either mono or polycrystalline type-it is not stated in the advertising.
The inverter is an unknown brand with unknown Chinese pedigree. The system is
run on a bulk purchase only deal AIUI - you pays your money up front and you
wait, and wait,,,, and perhaps you never even get to see your PV system and your
money has disappeared. Would you buy a new car on this basis?

The legitimate suppliers are up in arms and are making representation to the
ACCC to have Nuenergy explain/comply with customer protection standards.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Ross,


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your
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According to their FAQ at:
http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pdfs/20090501_nue_faqs.pdf

The inverter is an "SMA Sunny Boy (German)" not 'unknown Chinese
pedigree', the PV panels are "6 x 170W mono-crystalline CEEG".

There is no indication that you would lose the deposit (unless they are
a true con and plan to disappear).

I would like to know more about whether they are REALLY a scam or not,
because it's getting really hard to decide what to do, and time is
running out.

They sure do offer an attractive offer for people that aren't earning >
$100 000, thanks to the rebate. The indication is that the whole system
is free, as they use the Rebate and sale of RECs to fund it. However
they may well be a scam, though not for the reason you mention above,
unless their FAQ blatantly lies.

Regards,

Ross..


Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:Hi Ross,
:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:
:> The Nuenergy offer is basically a SCAM. The PV panels are of unknown make and
:> can be either mono or polycrystalline type-it is not stated in the
advertising.
:> The inverter is an unknown brand with unknown Chinese pedigree. The system is
:> run on a bulk purchase only deal AIUI - you pays your money up front and you
:> wait, and wait,,,, and perhaps you never even get to see your PV system and
your
:> money has disappeared. Would you buy a new car on this basis?
:>
:> The legitimate suppliers are up in arms and are making representation to the
:> ACCC to have Nuenergy explain/comply with customer protection standards.
:
:According to their FAQ at:
:http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pdfs/20090501_nue_faqs.pdf
:
:The inverter is an "SMA Sunny Boy (German)" not 'unknown Chinese
:pedigree', the PV panels are "6 x 170W mono-crystalline CEEG".
:
:There is no indication that you would lose the deposit (unless they are
:a true con and plan to disappear).
:
:I would like to know more about whether they are REALLY a scam or not,
:because it's getting really hard to decide what to do, and time is
:running out.
:
:They sure do offer an attractive offer for people that aren't earning >
:$100 000, thanks to the rebate. The indication is that the whole system
:is free, as they use the Rebate and sale of RECs to fund it. However
:they may well be a scam, though not for the reason you mention above,
:unless their FAQ blatantly lies.
:
:Regards,
:
:Ross..


I hadn't actually looked at their site but had merely been in discussion with
another person who was more aware of their practises than I.

I fail to see how they can both supply the equioment AND carry out the
installation for less than the $8K rebate plus RECS.

If you wanted to install a similar quality system to the Sharp 1kW system
yourself then look at the costs involved;

PV panels Sharp 24V 175W NTR5E3E cost $1,550 each
http://www.energymatters.com.au/sharp-solar-panel-175watt-24volt-mono-p-4.html
and a Fronius IG15 inverter costs $3,074
http://www.energymatters.com.au/fronius-1500watt-grid-connect-inverter-ig-15-p-624.html

These 2 items alone account for $12,374 alone for a 1kW system so even if you
receive $9000 in rebate and RECS you still have to find $3,374 PLUS extraneous
materials such as roof frame, isolator CB's, cabling etc, plus contractor
labour. Remember, If you don't use a contractor who is certified to install
solar PV systems you don't get the $8K rebate, so that expense must be on top of
all other items.

I know for a fact that on my system, the contractor charges for installation
came to $2000 all up so add that to the above 2 items and we have $5,374 out of
pocket costs, and that doesn't include the frame and extraneous items. Sharp
have done a package deal to provide ALL items, right down to the necessary
labels for the various CB's and the meter box, so that the system can be
supplied and installed for the same as you would pay just for the PV panels and
inverter, including certified contarctor installation, while still making a
small profit.

Even using a Sunny Boy 1100W inverter instead of a Fronius IG15 will set you
back around $2,360
http://www.energymatters.com.au/sma-sunny-boy-1100watt-grid-connect-inverter-p-401.html
And cheaper (but still good quality) panels such as Uni-Solar will cost $1,204
ea
http://www.energymatters.com.au/unisolar-solar-panel-124watt-24volt-amorphous-p-60.html
so you do the sums. Note that the above prices are discounted from the rrp. This
combination will save you $2,790 over the Sharp system, but you are still up for
installation costs plus all the extraneous items.

It is impossible for Nuenergy to provide and install anything approaching the
quality of the Sharp 1kW system (or even the Sunny Boy/Uni-Solar) for the cost
of the $8K rebate plus RECS while still making a profit. It has to be a scam.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
On Thu, 07 May 2009 17:08:36 +1000, Ross Vumbaca

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advertising.
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your
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Its capacity is only 1100W.

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Pay with a credit card and get some protection that way.

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There are extra costs, eg $120 for a tiled roof, $200-$250 for
relocating the inverter away from excessively sunny areas.

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A monocrystalline panel, 2kW inverter system proposed by Aussie Solar
would cost me $9515 whereas the NuEnergy 1.1kW inverter system would
cost $8670 - $8720. The 2kW inverter would have reserve capacity for
extra panels, but I don't know whether it would be any more robust
than the 1.1kW inverter when used with 1kW panels. It may be worth
pricing a Sunny Boy 2100TL just for comparison.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi,


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Which is sufficient for a "1kW system", but they allow you to upgrade to
higher rated inverters.

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I thought of that, but I heard that you need to claim a chargeback with
60-75 days usually, and the waiting period could be longer from
NuEnergy, due to the slow turnaround in getting the rebate approved, and
the demand for installs..

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Indeed, but these are really not too bad in the league of paying many
thousands of dollars from other vendors.

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No rebate for yourself?

Regards,

Ross..

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
On Fri, 08 May 2009 16:41:03 +1000, Ross Vumbaca

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Yes, I qualify for the rebate.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Franc,


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Then the NuEnergy system would cost possibly < $1000, from your post I
got the impression that the NuEnergy system would cost you "$8670 - $8720".

I just took a look at Aussie solar's website, they also offer relatively
low prices, with around $2710 for a 1kW system. Do you have any details
on their inverter or panels?

Assuming that Aussie solar are quite reputable, it doesn't seem far
fetched then, to see http://www.solarsave.com.au/products.html offering
one for $1990 (cheaper), since they may be using a cheaper
inverter/cheaper panels. Or for the really big purchasers, who get
bigger bulk discounts, even less..

What is your opinion of the recent players that are offering 1kW systems
for < $1000? (NuEnergy, and
http://www.statesolarservices.com.au/index.php amongst others).

Regards,

Ross..


Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
On Fri, 08 May 2009 17:58:14 +1000, Ross Vumbaca

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Yes, my cost would be < $1000.

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I believe this recent thread covers some of the hardware:
http://groups.google.com/group/aus.electronics/browse_thread/thread/10d14ebedd60d394/bfe163dc7814ab64

This is the inverter:
http://aussiesolar.com.au/inverter_CMS-2000.pdf

The panels are 170W Enertech monocrystalline SE-170M:
http://aussiesolar.com.au/Panel_170w.pdf
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/paulineshi/product-detailiqHmrRsyYpWf/China-175W-Mono-Crystalline-Solar-Panels-SE-170M-.html
http://www.solarunlimited.com.au/solarunlimited/d/Resource_Library/Specifications_PDFs/E7VP1O691FD9R1NGUJ46PMY4SIIFZ6/V4XLEGUBY3I75QN.pdf/SolarEnertechSpecSheet.pdf

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I don't have any real understanding of this market. I only recently
started looking into it.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Franc,


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http://groups.google.com/group/aus.electronics/browse_thread/thread/10d14ebedd60d394/bfe163dc7814ab64
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http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/paulineshi/product-detailiqHmrRsyYpWf/China-175W-Mono-Crystalline-Solar-Panels-SE-170M-.html
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http://www.solarunlimited.com.au/solarunlimited/d/Resource_Library/Specifications_PDFs/E7VP1O691FD9R1NGUJ46PMY4SIIFZ6/V4XLEGUBY3I75QN.pdf/SolarEnertechSpecSheet.pdf

I see, seems to be in a similar vein to NuEnergy and all the rest
cost/quality wise..

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Neither do I, I'm only looking at it as a beginner myself, but the
amount of cheap deals that have recently appeared, followed by the
people who claim it to be a rort, and those who don't, has made it
rather confusing and uncertain..

Regards,

Ross..

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
Hi Ross,

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benefit
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This company: http://www.solarsave.com.au/products.html

is offering a 1kW system with an 'Australian made' inverter, for $1990
after the rebate, which is a damn sight less than the $4000-$5000 that a
lot of other suppliers are asking for. They are apparently a "Clean
Energy Council Accredited Installer" (whatever that means).

Have you heard of them, or are they dodgy too?

Regards,

Ross..

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:Hi Ross,
:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the
benefit
:> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less
than
:> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the
:> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year.
:>
:> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority
:> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply
:> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day.
:
:This company: http://www.solarsave.com.au/products.html
:
:is offering a 1kW system with an 'Australian made' inverter, for $1990
:after the rebate, which is a damn sight less than the $4000-$5000 that a
:lot of other suppliers are asking for. They are apparently a "Clean
:Energy Council Accredited Installer" (whatever that means).
:
:Have you heard of them, or are they dodgy too?
:
:Regards,
:
:Ross..


Hadn't heard of this mob either but I would doubt if they would be dodgy since
they have to live here...

Let's take a look at what they offer. The 1kW system uses a Latronics 1200W
inverter which sells for around $1,880
http://www.energymatters.com.au/latronics-pv-edge-grid-connect-inverter-1200watt-p-94.html
This inverter has a max DC input voltage of 100V which means that you have to
connect the PV panels in series/parl combination so that means the cabling has
to be heavier than when using say a Fronius  which has input DC voltage = 400V.
A cheaper polycrystalline 24V 170W panel such as Suntech still costs $1,419 ea
http://www.energymatters.com.au/suntech-170watt-24volt-polycrystalline-solar-panel-p-649.html

So that adds up to $10,394 and we still haven't included all of the
miscellaneous items or installation costs. These additional items would cost say
$2,000 which makes a grand total of $12,394 installed. Subtract RECS + rebate =
$8,966 and we still have to find $3,428.

I can't see Solar Save getting their inverters or panels much cheaper than
energymatters and they still have to make a profit on them. The only way they
can do a $1,990 deal would be to knock off $1,438 in installation costs to bring
it to that figure. I can't see any company being able to remain in business if
they are providing and installing systems for almost zero profit even if they
are doing installations for free.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

I meant to say;

:I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are providing
:and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing
:installations for free.

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running
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its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means
in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale
but .. looks better now

Re: 1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

:>
:> I meant to say;
:>
:> :I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are
providing
:> :and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing
:> :installations for free.
:its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means
:in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale
:but .. looks better now


So $US4K is approx $AU5K3. How much to import all the parts from China while
making sure they comply with Australian standards? Who verifies that they do
comply - and what if they don't? You still have to pay for installation at
current labour costs on top of all this. One would imagine that Nuenergy would
still be trying to make a profit on top of all the charges so it still can't be
done for zero out of pocket expenses as claimed by Nuenergy.

It should also be remembered that all the costs have to be submitted to the
Australian goverment when applying for the $8K rebate, which has to be done
before you even place anorder for the equipment. Do you think they would approve
the rebate if you were not going to actually have an out of pocket expense?

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