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Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal


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I am very curious about the electricty consumption of that device. AFAIUI,
it is taking gaseous NatGas from the street pipe and the pumping it into a
gas tank that is mastly liquid, o it has to do a lot of compression of the
natgas to get it into the tank.



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal

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According to this article <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5960905 , it
uses 800 watts.

Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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For how long ? And for what energy output ?

You're quoting power when you should be quoting energy. A classic mistake of
wannabes. Don't get your units mixed up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensional_analysis

READ IT !

Graham



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal

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If I had known the answers I would have provided them. My guess would
be that it has to provide a "reasonable" days driving with an
overnight fill. Almost all of the contributors to this group are
capable of making similar assumptions.
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Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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Assumptions are worthless. Read "guess". Hardly a basis for a scientific
discussion. And don't get your Watts confused with your Joules or kWh.

Graham


Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal

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Don't get "Where are the electric cars ?" confused with a scientific
discussion.
<http://groups.google.com.au/group/aus.electronics/msg/c94e135a26036e2d?hl=en

[OT] I could resist clicking on "view profile" when I looked up your
post on Google. How did you manage to get yourself banned? I have
found your posts a bit pompous but I can't imagine why they would
offend the folks at Google.



Graham

Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal
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"The unit is built by Toronto-based FuelMaker Corp., which says Phill
is quieter than the average clothes' dryer and uses just 800 watts of
electricity."

800W for 6 hours!
My clothes dryer is quite load.

Dave.

Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal

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So, less than a dollar atm seems OK.

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Most clothes driers are noisy when loaded, loud even :-)

MrT.



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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That compression will cost you a LOT of energy. No free lunch remember.

Same with the MDI/Tata 'air car' too btw.

Graham



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:25:44 +0000, Eeyore

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Compressed Natural Gas doesnt liquify when pumped into a tank.
You have to cryogenically cool it to liquify it.
Liquifies at -170 C.


Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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Should be fun. They do have big tanker ships moving LNG around btw.

Dispensing it at the pump might be interesting. -170C would embrittle the hose
and cause it to crack. Whoops !

Graham



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:17:40 +0000, Eeyore

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Yes , it doesnt work in liqufied form.
Its only used that way for export.
Large ships with special insulated cryo tanks carry the stuff around
the world.
The local busses here run on CNG but its simply compressed as a gas
into hi pressure cylinders which are located on the roof of the bus.
There are some cars running around powered by CNG and there is one CNG
filling station near where I live.
Just looks like a normal petrol station with slightly differant
looking pumps.
CNG is a bit of a dilemma for Govts in how do they tax it.
Gasoline and LPG are taxed, but CNG isnt, or not yet anyway.
If you tax it , then the tax will have to apply to all CNG uses, as
you wont be able to stop people filling their cars at home of the gas
pipe.


Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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AFAIUI,
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a
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the
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I was only joking ! Honest ! I've seen what LN2 does to rubber.      ;~)


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I fail to see why CNG should be treated differently from any other hydrocarbon
fuel.

Graham



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal

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Not much of a dilemma really, since LPG attracts very little tax (people
also use it for heating, hot water etc.) and yet they ENCOURAGE people to
use it in cars by giving a $2000 taxpayer funded subsidy for conversion.
When petrol/diesel users are in the minority, that will definitely change of
course!

MrT.



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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Where are the electric cars ?

Graham


Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal
On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:05:50 +0100, Eeyore

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Also where are the batteries.
Given that the artcile completely leaves out what battery technology
the cars are going to use, Id say the idea hasnt had much research
done.
Batteries are currently the weak link for EVs , not lack of charging
stations.


Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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Indeed !


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No. I suspect an attempt to manupulate share prices with provocative media
announcements.


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I believe the highest energy density types are the molten sodium and molten
salt types e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_battery

Like the Zebra battery. One small problem.....
"When not in use, zebra batteries typically require being left under charge, in
order to be ready for use when needed. If shut down, a reheating process must
be initiated that may require up to two days to restore the battery pack to the
desired temperature, and full charge."

They ALL have to be kept hot i.e. molten to work.

Graham



Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 00:10:01 +0100, Eeyore

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And they are simply too heavy.
The lightest batteries at the moment are Lithium Ions which weigh
around 10 KG per KWH.
So for a range or around 150 miles you need 30 KWH , so thats 300 KG
of battery in your car, or the equivalent of around 4 passengers all
the time.
But its really all academic anyway.
History shows that people wont adopt new technology unless it costs
around the same or less than whats currently available for the same
level of performance.
So Evs will have to compete price wise with conventional cars for
similar performance, and so far thats just a dream.
Heres a bit of interesting info.
When Henry Ford invented his model T , it sold for around $300
which was approx 4 months pay at that time.
That would make a Model T cost around $4000 in todays money, not
far from what Indias Tata motors are aiming for . ($3800)
Electric cars will have to come down to around $20K or less before
there will be much interest, and currently you cant even buy the
battery for that price.

Heres an interesting question to ponder.
What gives the greatest improvement in CO2 reduction per dollar spent.
Solar Panels or Electric cars.
Why arnt Electric cars subsidised like Solar Panels are.





Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal



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Fibreglass and Rockwool.

Graham


Re: $1b electric car infrastructure deal
For those in Sydney interested in this stuff, there is a seminar next
Thursday.
Details below.

Dave.

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